"A Fat Rant"

[9th Engineer]

Kingswood, instead of using substitutions like "gene C" for the actual name of a gene, could you actually post the real name? If you use science as part of your argument then you're pretty well obligated to cite your sources and use correct terminology, otherwise most of us would have no idea if you're just blowing smoke up our asses unless we undertake a very time consuming search through the journals. Your info, your responsibility to cite. Nuff said.

I'd also like to pick a point on someone being predisposed to something vs having a guarenteed outcome. Yes, there is a difference in metabolisms between people, but it's not the be-all-end-all determinator you make it out to be. If you happen to not be blessed with the ability to eat as much as you'd like and still maintain a healthy weight, then you have to make a choice between indulging yourself and keeping your weight under control. If obesity is actually genetic, then it must be approached with the same attitude as any other condition that is dangerous if it gets out of control such as diabetes.

On a more personal note, I know many people on both sides of the average weight, and I can't think of a serious exception where the persons weight didn't match their eating and exersise habits. And in this case, people are most often haunted by poor decisions in the past. The body does not normally create new adipocytes (the primary cells for 'fat' storage) after the late 'teens. While they may not have been bloated at this stage, excess weight at this age probably means a gross over abundance of fat storage capacity to be filled later. When you try to lose weight later in life, they can lose most of their stored lipids, but you won't lose the cellular stucture you put down.

However, members of my family who have been extreemly overweight in the past have lost over 40lbs in a few cases, and have kept it off through very strict dieting and exercise. Unless you happen to be that one in several thousand with a serious disorder, your weight is the result of how you've lived your entire life.

As for me, I'm on my diet really for one main reason, to look more physically attractive. It also helps greatly in my day-to-day comfort and mental alertness, but my biggest motivator for keeping myself on 1450 calories of vegan food a day is so that I look better both with my shirt on and without it. I am absolutly not ashamed to say so. With others, it's your lifestyle that I care about. I watch what you eat to make my judgements more then watching to see if your belly jiggles. But around the pool, I'd be lying to you if I said that I'm as physically attracted to overweight girls as I am to those with slim physiques. I'm also very attracted to high cheek bones and narrow faces, it's just my taste.

[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Kingswood, instead of using substitutions like "gene C" for the actual name of a gene, could you actually post the real name?

The point of the example was primarily mathematical, not scientific. The point was to demonstrate that genes could be combined in various ways. The example was intentionally simplified to prove a point and I expect that most people would understand this. I could have posted the real names of the genes involved, but to make a realistic example would have taken a few hours to do research to get the names right. If people want to find out more they can do their own research.

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

I'd also like to pick a point on someone being predisposed to something vs having a guarenteed outcome. Yes, there is a difference in metabolisms between people, but it's not the be-all-end-all determinator you make it out to be. If you happen to not be blessed with the ability to eat as much as you'd like and still maintain a healthy weight, then you have to make a choice between indulging yourself and keeping your weight under control. If obesity is actually genetic, then it must be approached with the same attitude as any other condition that is dangerous if it gets out of control such as diabetes.

I would like to pick a point of my own here. You are implying that everyone who is overweight has indulged themselves excessively. That is not true for everyone. There are overweight people who can gain weight on eating plans that would promote weight loss in normal people. There are also recognised syndromes in which obesity is a symptom, or the result of excessive appetite caused by hormonal deficiencies such as the inability to make the hormone leptin. To suggest that all overweight is the same is an erroneous simplification and you would do well to remember this.

I restate an earlier point of mine: If everyone ate a healthy diet in moderation and got enough exercise, there would still be fat people. For more information, do some research on metabolic disorders.

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

As for me, I'm on my diet really for one main reason, to look more physically attractive. It also helps greatly in my day-to-day comfort and mental alertness, but my biggest motivator for keeping myself on 1450 calories of vegan food a day is so that I look better both with my shirt on and without it. I am absolutly not ashamed to say so. With others, it's your lifestyle that I care about. I watch what you eat to make my judgements more then watching to see if your belly jiggles. But around the pool, I'd be lying to you if I said that I'm as physically attracted to overweight girls as I am to those with slim physiques. I'm also very attracted to high cheek bones and narrow faces, it's just my taste.

Other people's tastes are different. Some people would not mind you as you are now. But don't let that sap your motivation. Keep up the good work and I hope you achieve your goals.

By the way, I may be rather accepting of fat people - for example I prefer the fuller figure in women - but that does not mean I promote unhealthy eating habits. I like to see people eating fruit and vegetables every day, and I consider trans fats to be public enemy number one as far as a healthy diet is concerned.

[9th Engineer]

The point of the example was primarily mathematical, not scientific. The point was to demonstrate that genes could be combined in various ways. The example was intentionally simplified to prove a point and I expect that most people would understand this.

However, you first need to back up the implicit argument that the genes in question can behave in the manner you have presented them. Most people here have no knowledge of genetics, and if the information is as simple and well known as you claim it would be an easy search. Your point is absolutely a scientific one, since the crux of what you're saying is that these genes can be rearranged and separated from one another. This is not true of all genes, and this isn't a board where everyone can be expected to know that offhand.
If you make the statement, you back it up with real data. Otherwise anyone could simply make half-cocked claims, safe in the knowledge that we don't have multiple hours to devote to each thread.

There are overweight people who can gain weight on eating plans that would promote weight loss in normal people. There are also recognised syndromes in which obesity is a symptom, or the result of excessive appetite caused by hormonal deficiencies such as the inability to make the hormone leptin.

Yes, these disorders are out there, but not in 50% or more of the population. Hyperphagic disorders are not what make people just 'heavy', very often they must be institutionalized due to their weight. Prader-Willie's Syndrome is an example of one of these, occuring in 1 out of every 12,000 to 15,000 births.
If someone has a genetic disorder that does not allow them to eat a diet that would be healthy for a normal person, then they should tailor their diet to the extent of their illness just like a diabetic needs to alter their diet.
I am not saying that all overweight people are the same. In fact, I'm saying the exact opposite, that each person needs to eat according to themselves.
Food is just fuel, thankfully our society is starting to recognize it as that.