You Go Boy, Drop That Pump

[Griff]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

People who have issues with SUVs crack me up. Ill informed and narrow minded.

Nonsense. You need to connect the dots. The issue I have is with people who whine about paying a small fraction of the true costs of their vehicle at the pump. Next time you get pissed when some hippie flips you off in traffic, remember that your POS Hummer is a powerful symbol of your support for the Bush agenda. I am being subsidized in blood and taxes as well, but at least I acknowlege it and would prefer not to pass the cost on to someone else.

Originally Posted by Griff

Nonsense. You need to connect the dots. The issue I have is with people who whine about paying a small fraction of the true costs of their vehicle at the pump. Next time you get pissed when some hippie flips you off in traffic, remember that your POS Hummer is a powerful symbol of your support for the Bush agenda. I am being subsidized in blood and taxes as well, but at least I acknowlege it and would prefer not to pass the cost on to someone else.

Pissed? Hardly, I just pity them for being stupid, uninformed and deluded.
Because the manufacturing was already in place for it, the H3 has a smaller carbon footprint, per mile, than any hybrid SUV.
Read that little fact in an article in here.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Because the manufacturing was already in place for it, the H3 has a smaller carbon footprint, per mile, than any hybrid SUV.
Read that little fact in an article in here.

That's a weird way to compare them. Manufacturing costs should be amortized over the life of the factory. They don't count just for the first generation of vehicles to come out of the factory. Using that standard, you could just as easily say that the first vehicle out of the plant cost billions and the second was just the cost of materials and labor.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

That's a weird way to compare them. Manufacturing costs should be amortized over the life of the factory. They don't count just for the first generation of vehicles to come out of the factory. Using that standard, you could just as easily say that the first vehicle out of the plant cost billions and the second was just the cost of materials and labor.

Not exactly, the factory can be amortized over the life of the factory, but the tooling for each specific model is amortized for that model. I think the tooling costs far exceed the factory cost.

When I say tooling, I'm including all the costs to design, refine and test the model prior to production as well as the specific tooling to manufacture it. The factory is just a box to keep the weather off the expensive shit.

[xoxoxoBruce]

UT's observation about needing two types of vehicles and often wishing you had worn the other one on that day, has led to the popularity of the short bed, 4 door, pickups. If you can't afford two vehicles that do their alloted tasks well, get one that does neither well.

Don't overlook the value of a utility trailer for occasional hauling, although most people would have to learn how to use it.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

UT's observation about needing two types of vehicles and often wishing you had worn the other one on that day, has led to the popularity of the short bed, 4 door, pickups. If you can't afford two vehicles that do their alloted tasks well, get one that does neither well.

Yes, and that's why I ended up with... uh... um...

aw crap

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Yes, and that's why I ended up with... uh... um...

aw crap

Without excess family, or rampant home handy man urges,
it was a good choice for you.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Not exactly, the factory can be amortized over the life of the factory, but the tooling for each specific model is amortized for that model. I think the tooling costs far exceed the factory cost.

When I say tooling, I'm including all the costs to design, refine and test the model prior to production as well as the specific tooling to manufacture it. The factory is just a box to keep the weather off the expensive shit.

Yes, but just as you can reuse some of the tooling from a previous version of the Hummer, you can reuse some of the tooling you come up with for the new hybrid in future hybrids. And there is plenty of new stuff in the H3 that isn't carried over from older versions, just as there will be in future hybrids.

What I was saying is that it's silly to penalize hybrids for being at the beginning of their amortization terms. Using that logic, we should still be in Model-Ts, to avoid the costs of retooling the factories.

Whether the cost is measured in dollars or carbon, it's expensive to bring in a new technology.

[Griff]

awesome mileage

You are a joy to bait rage. Anyway your other vehicles must've been pretty poor performers if the .gov numbers are reliable.

Fuel Type Regular
MPG (city) 14
MPG (highway) 18
MPG (combined) 16

Please just take one thing from this exchange. We are laying claim to someone else's production every time we fill our gas tanks. We are not making a free exchange, we are taking, by force, the results of their labor.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Because the manufacturing was already in place for it, the H3 has a smaller carbon footprint, per mile, than any hybrid SUV.

I don't see your link, but I hope it isn't to that faulty CNW "research" everyone always talks about.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Because the manufacturing was already in place for it, the H3 has a smaller carbon footprint, per mile, than any hybrid SUV.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about people driving gas hogs and whining about the price of gas, while good folks die in the sand. You must be having a different argument.

newguy- Everybody has their reasons, I have a gas sucking 4x4 pickup for farm stuff and a life endangering Echo for town driving. I just can't see whining about the price of gas when the only squeeze you (not you in particular) feel is because you chose poorly at the car lot. Folks need to align their vehicle choice with their reality. If rage can't afford a status only vehicle like a hummer he should park it. If we continue to subsidize gas, we are putting innovation on the back burner.

Originally Posted by Griff

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about people driving gas hogs and whining about the price of gas, while good folks die in the sand. You must be having a different argument.

newguy- Everybody has their reasons, I have a gas sucking 4x4 pickup for farm stuff and a life endangering Echo for town driving. I just can't see whining about the price of gas when the only squeeze you (not you in particular) feel is because you chose poorly at the car lot. Folks need to align their vehicle choice with their reality. If rage can't afford a status only vehicle like a hummer he should park it. If we continue to subsidize gas, we are putting innovation on the back burner.

Status only? You have no idea why we have the vehicle. Speak of what you know.
It still gets better mileage than our truck, the truck before, our van and the SUV we used to have and our neighbor's SUV... speak of what you know.
Again, people who bitch about Hummers are clueless and good to laugh at.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Status only? You have no idea why we have the vehicle. Speak of what you know.

Again sorry, didn't realize you were fighting jihadists in sunny Florida. I want to make it clear that people can drive what they want, just quit it with the waaa waaa when Exxon bends you over the hood of your eyesore.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

Next time you get pissed when some hippie flips you off in traffic, remember that your POS Hummer is a powerful symbol of your support for the Bush agenda.

What a load of crap. When people flipped me off in my H2 I just ran em off the road. Idiots. That is some screwed up logic assumptions there...

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

What a load of crap. When people flipped me off in my H2 I just ran em off the road. Idiots.

Good job reinforcing the negative stereotype, there.

But the Hummer is not really the issue. It is all these supposed liberally minded anti-government people turning around and telling others what they can and cannont spend their money on all the while bitching about government interference in their lives...

You are right: the H2 really isn't the issue, here, although I have no idea what anti-government liberals have to do with it, either. (?) Gas guzzling SUVs are a drop in the bucket compared to the overall excessive American lifestyle and the refusal to live efficiently -- high gas prices are going to bite people in many more aspects besides their commute. The vehicle is the most easily noted example in people's lives and the easiest to see a direct connection. Environmental issues aside, a switch for many would be good. Even in this most obvious aspect, people aren't doing it despite the tax on their bank account and the stubbornness bewilders the rest of us.

I'm really interested as to why so many people, especially the complainers, are so resistant to switching. I have a whole crew of people at my office that exclusively drive pickup trucks and will not consider switching to a small vehicle. They:

...are not contractors or construction workers.
...do not regularly haul equipment or supplies.
...do not haul a trailer.
...are most often the only thing the truck is hauling.

Despite all of these points, each of them notes they have no plans to drive anything other than a pickup now or in the future. The high cost of gasoline has been enough to push several of them into financial difficulty because of long commutes to the point that one has been lamenting that he might "actually have to switch to a closer church" rather than the one he prefers. Do people think the soaring cost of fuel is temporary? Are all of these deluded drivers waiting for the impossible day the government does something to reduce the price of gas?