Do You Own a Gun?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Our individual morals don't have to be mutually exclusive, do they? Your morals are valid, in that they are what they are. We are both right, in our own opinion. Surely, morals can change. You don't feel the same way morally now as you did as a teenager, do you? If they can change, why can they change do to the influence of someone else?

Gotta log off for a while.

I'm sure if you ask a child molester whether he's doing something immoral, he'll say he's not. Hitler thought what he was doing was saving the world. The fact remains these people are insane and are sociopaths.

Yes, individuals may have different sets of morality. Some find merely being born gay to be immoral. Some find sex before marriage to be immoral.

Personal morality and government morality are entirely different things. Your personal morality does not grant you any authority to legislate your religious beliefs onto others. Government morality is merely here to ensure that we don't physically harm, endanger, or violate the person, property, or rights of non-consenting others.

Peter McWilliams does a fantastic job of describing this more eloquently than I'd ever be able to in his book "Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do".

The whole book is available to read online (though I recommend buying a copy). Here is the chapter in question...

http://mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/104.htm

[Cloud]

I'd be afraid an attacker would simply take the gun away and shoot me with it.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Cloud

I'd be afraid an attacker would simply take the gun away and shoot me with it.

Not an uncommon or unfounded fear. You are one of the people who fall into the category of being one who should never own a gun. Just call 911 and hope for the best.

[Cloud]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Not an uncommon or unfounded fear. You are one of the people who fall into the category of being one who should never own a gun. Just call 911 and hope for the best.

I'm just barely smart enough not to compound the problem.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

You don't feel the same way morally now as you did as a teenager, do you?

With regard to the slaughter of children, yes, I do. It is generally agreed that there are only a few natural rights, but they are the biggies. No one will ever convince me that I am wrong about them. If you believe that there are situations where it is not utterly wrong to slaughter innocent children for the purposes of tradition or societal convention, then yes, our moralities are definitely mutually exclusive.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

With regard to the slaughter of children, yes, I do. It is generally agreed that there are only a few natural rights, but they are the biggies. No one will ever convince me that I am wrong about them.

If your mind is closed in this matter, there's no need to continue the debate

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

If you believe that there are situations where it is not utterly wrong to slaughter innocent children for the purposes of tradition or societal convention, then yes, our moralities are definitely mutually exclusive.

I don't "believe that there are situations where it is not utterly wrong to slaughter innocent children for the purposes of tradition or societal convention", but I reserve the right to change my mind.

[duck_duck]

If I had a gun in a situation like that I would probably end up closing my eyes and firing the gun wildly making a bullet ridden cut out in the wall of the attacker and not actually hitting him.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by duck_duck

If I had a gun in a situation like that I would probably end up closing my eyes and firing the gun wildly making a bullet ridden cut out in the wall of the attacker and not actually hitting him.

That's the reason you have to have the commitment to practice to be justified in owning a gun.
Where I live there are no sidewalks, hence minimal pedestrians, so I don't practice as much as I should.

[Ibby]

I will never own a gun because I would never ever be able to use it. I will never own a gun because I hate guns. I will never own a gun because I believe they are dangerous. I will never own a gun because I just can't picture myself with a weapon anywhere outside a video game.

But I will defend to the death your right to own one.

[Aliantha]

But I will defend to the death your right to own one.

Just not with a gun right?

[Radar]

Actually it does answer your question, and if it's your contention that gun violence has risen in Philadelphia, Denver, or Minneapolis since concealed carry permits were made, I'd demand proof and that you to provide a link between carry permits and the increased violent crimes. All the research I've done points to gangs fighting over drug territory and this would go away if we'd only end the drug war entirely.

I defy you or anyone else to provide a single example of a legal concealed permit holder that has ever committed a violent crime with a gun.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by Radar

Actually it does answer your question, and if it's your contention that gun violence has risen in Philadelphia, Denver, or Minneapolis since concealed carry permits were made, I'd demand proof and that you to provide a link between carry permits and the increased violent crimes. All the research I've done points to gangs fighting over drug territory and this would go away if we'd only end the drug war entirely.

My contention?? Remember, you said:

Originally Posted by Radar

Really? Perhaps you can tell me why in 100% of the states that have allowed concealed permits to be obtained by regular people (non-cops) crime has decreased dramatically?

So I asked:

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Does that apply to individual cities as well?

Which you didn't answer, so I answered myself.

Originally Posted by Radar

I defy you or anyone else to provide a single example of a legal concealed permit holder that has ever committed a violent crime with a gun.

I don't know what that has to do with anything I said...but I'll take your challenge just for fun:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...8/ai_n16613984

What do I win?

[Radar]

Wrong. Our rights are our rights even when they are violated. Our rights can't be taken away, given away, bought, sold, or traded. They exist even when we are prevented from exercising them. A violated right is still a right. If someone cuts out your tongue, it doesn't remove your right to free speech.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Bah humbug.

[duck_duck]

What if those rights were changed or removed through a legal process by the government?