Jealousy, trust, and diaries - Page 2

Sundae · 04-04-2007, 04:41 AM

You've already suggested the best thing you can do - sit down and have a long talk with her. And I would suggest relationship counselling if you are serious about this woman.

I have more sympathy with her than other posters. I know the way she has behaved has caused you problems and she is out of line, but if you care about her at least stop and think what she is going through. Jealousy is a powerful emotion. Although she can learn ways of controlling it, she is always going to have it there to some degree. Until she learns it will nag away in a small part of her brain, like an alcoholic going about their daily business but all the while planning where the next drink is coming from.

She will probably have an adrenaline rush when she gives in to the urge to snoop. For a while she will be buzzing with it, then if she finds something that confirms her fears - a name on a website, a letter, she will have a massive crash. She's not coming to you in a furious rage or crying uncontrollably in order to manipulate you - that is the only way she can deal with the weird mix of chemicals in her body.

Most jealous people I know hate their jealousy. If they could take a magic pill to make it go away, they would. Of course the only thing that works is facing what they fear the most, an understanding that what they are doing is hurting the person they love and a willingness to change.

Don't indulge her too much. Make it clear it is her jealousy you dislike, and not her, but that she needs to learn to control that part of herself.

BigV · 04-04-2007, 09:34 AM

Hey, Predicament. This is the first of an arbitrarily large number of "Groundhog Days". That number can be as large as the number of days you can expect to live, or, the number of hours in each of those days, or, the number of times the subject of an argument can change in an hour in each of those days. Arbitrarily large. Assuming nothing fundamental changes, (and I have no reason to believe anything will change, fundamentally), you'll be asking this question again tomorrow. And next week, next year, ad nauseum.

You can add one new thing to this, "Are you any closer to the end of your patience at refuting baseless accusations?" If that answer is yes, then you're on the path to the end of this cycle. You can short circuit a lot of the grief by just ending it now, unless you're into that kind of masochism. Or you can ride it out. If your answer to the question is no, then you will ride because it will continue. You know this. Ask yourself what you're trying to find justification for? Will you become more trustworthy? Can you prove it? Think about it.

zippyt: hehe "Get shed" sweet. with your permission, I would like to add that to my vocabulary.

Hime · 04-06-2007, 03:15 PM

Personal story:

I met my fiance, who is several years older than me, on a message board where he had something of a reputation for being a player. Before we started talking to each other, I'd seen plenty of pictures of him posing with cute girls at parties and conventions, and, since I didn't think of myself as a "hottie," figured that he would have no interest in me. Most of the women in the pictures were very shapely and dressed in sexy outfits.

When he first approached me and started flirting with me, I was very surprised and figured that it would last just about until he found out what I looked like. Turns out I was wrong.

But it took me quite a while to accept that I didn't have to compete with the girls that he had dated previously. I kept thinking that he was just dating me because he felt like he should grow up and have a "serious" relationship (i.e. one with low physical attraction). It's sometimes difficult to realize how other people see you. Since that time I have come to the shocking realization that lots of people find me attractive, but for a long time I really didn't believe that someone could see me that way. Maybe your girlfriend has similar insecurities?

It was a similar situation to the one you describe, Predicament, in that he had dated quite a few women but had never been in love, and most of the relationships had been very short. He is very confident and if he saw a woman who looked cute, he had no problem asking her out to dinner! Totally unlike me; I've always been one to obsess about someone for weeks before making a move. It was difficult for me to accept at first that his relationship with me was different not because I was less attractive physically than the past girlfriends, but because there were other aspects to the relationship besides physical attraction.

In summation, I don't blame your gf for being nervous about this. While she was out of line to guess your password instead of just talking to you, it is scary for those of us with limited sexual experience to think about our partners being with someone else! She probably does not think of herself as very sexy, or worries that her lack of experience means that she is not as good in bed.

If you really love her, you aren't going to dump her based on the advice of random internet people.

But you should talk to her about her anxieties and what she can do to feel more confident. If I were her, I would most want to hear that you feel lucky to be with a woman like her and that you think about her all the time. Reassure her that you choose her over other women, but let her know that she is hurting both of you by obsessing over your past and that she needs to find the confidence to let it go. Let her know that you will help her with that however you can.

Whatever you do, please don't use the "you are attractive, but your insecurity is unattractive" line. I hate that one because it sends the message that she isn't allowed to talk about her anxieties, which will just make them worse.

Good luck!

freshnesschronic · 04-04-2007, 10:14 AM

Wow, that would be hard man. Part of you feels so strong for her but her jealousy issue is really an issue. I guess stepping back and reevaluating the relationship is the only thing you can really do. See if she's on page 4 of the courtship guide, not page 1, trying to find dirt on you. Miniscule things like past ex's that aren't a factor anymore shouldn't disrupt a healthy loving relationship, at all! If you guys don't have a common goal in the relationship then I don't know if things will work out. But I feel for you, brother.

limey · 04-09-2007, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

... See if she's on page 4 of the courtship guide, not page 1, trying to find dirt on you. ...

"Trying to find dirt on you" is NOT in the courtship guide!

freshnesschronic · 04-09-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limey

"Trying to find dirt on you" is NOT in the courtship guide!

Ehh, well maybe not specifically but indirectly it happens.
Not like intently digging up and attempting to find dirt, but to at least understand the past and what has happened with one's past relationships.

It'd be a rude awakening to get pretty serious then to have her find out "YOU had a thing for Heather? Why because she has bigger boobs than me?"

And you're like

I'd say page 1 of the courtship guide contains "be aware of past their past excursions."

Pie · 04-04-2007, 10:36 AM

The amount of time she spends "digging" bothers me. Anyone who spends that much effort looking for dirt isn't someone I would spend my time with -- who wants to date a person dedicated to bringing you down?

I feel for you, if you really love her.

footfootfoot · 04-04-2007, 10:44 AM

this or this. GTFOOT ASAP

Shawnee123 · 04-04-2007, 11:05 AM

I agree...get out.

Hypothetically, say you were cheating in some fashion. So, her repeated jealousy makes you stop cheating. Not because you wanted to stop, but because of being sick of the wrath.

You can't force other people to be what you want. When someone pressures someone into marriage, when someone tells someone they can't go out with their friends, when someone won't let you talk to other people they think you might be attracted to: completely innocent or completely guilty is irrelevant. When you force someone to do anything except what they would normally do, you are planting the seeds of resentment.

It may take 2 months, 2 years, 20 years...but one day you'll think: I had to walk on eggshells to make this life liveable, and in the process I left parts of myself behind.

People are going to be who they're going to be. You, however, seem to be incurring wrath for no reason. Just think what would happen if you accidentally forgot to be someone else and, say, ran into an old g/f on the street, and talked to her. I think all hell would break loose.

Not a fun way to live.

footfootfoot · 04-04-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Not a fun way to live.

That is, unless you're into that kind of thing...

Shawnee123 · 04-04-2007, 12:56 PM

Oh, yeah, and Foot3 left out another means of quick transport you might want to consider in your quest to be free:

footfootfoot · 04-04-2007, 01:00 PM

...there's no place like home
there's no place like home
there's no place like home...

TheMercenary · 04-04-2007, 01:06 PM

As others have suggested, sit down and come to some kind of agreement because this is NOT something I could live with. You will be walking around on pins and needles waiting for the next hammer to drop. This is the kind of person who will force you to isolate yourself from all relationships except those that she approves of or supervises. Fuck that. Agree she gets over it, or dump her ass. I would never consider spending time with someone like that no matter how beautiful she is. And remember this, for every really hot chick you meet out there, there is some guy who is tired of her shit. Start looking for the plain Jane's, they are more level headed and more fun to be with in the long run. Good luck.

Sundae · 04-04-2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I would never consider spending time with someone like that no matter how beautiful she is. And remember this, for every really hot chick you meet out there, there is some guy who is tired of her shit. Start looking for the plain Jane's, they are more level headed and more fun to be with in the long run.

You come across as a real prince sometimes, Merc.

TheMercenary · 04-04-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

You come across as a real prince sometimes, Merc.

Sorry, I have been married for 23 years and I am dealing with teens and young adults who are in the dating scene and occassionally are getting their hearts ripped out, all part of the growing up thing. I do tend to get a bit cynical about those things. But somewhere sooner or later you need to come to grips with the fact that there is always another person out there for you, no matter how good the sex, how good they look, how good a job they have, how nice or rich their parents are, or what ever. Find friendship and love first. Continual conflict and turmoil are not the ingredients for a lasting relationship. Eventually you will find the right person, but you do need to have some basic milestones of decorum and give and take that should define happiness for you. This situation is none of those things IMHO.

04-04-2007, 04:41 AM	#1
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	You've already suggested the best thing you can do - sit down and have a long talk with her. And I would suggest relationship counselling if you are serious about this woman. I have more sympathy with her than other posters. I know the way she has behaved has caused you problems and she is out of line, but if you care about her at least stop and think what she is going through. Jealousy is a powerful emotion. Although she can learn ways of controlling it, she is always going to have it there to some degree. Until she learns it will nag away in a small part of her brain, like an alcoholic going about their daily business but all the while planning where the next drink is coming from. She will probably have an adrenaline rush when she gives in to the urge to snoop. For a while she will be buzzing with it, then if she finds something that confirms her fears - a name on a website, a letter, she will have a massive crash. She's not coming to you in a furious rage or crying uncontrollably in order to manipulate you - that is the only way she can deal with the weird mix of chemicals in her body. Most jealous people I know hate their jealousy. If they could take a magic pill to make it go away, they would. Of course the only thing that works is facing what they fear the most, an understanding that what they are doing is hurting the person they love and a willingness to change. Don't indulge her too much. Make it clear it is her jealousy you dislike, and not her, but that she needs to learn to control that part of herself. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

04-04-2007, 09:34 AM	#2
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	Hey, Predicament. This is the first of an arbitrarily large number of "Groundhog Days". That number can be as large as the number of days you can expect to live, or, the number of hours in each of those days, or, the number of times the subject of an argument can change in an hour in each of those days. Arbitrarily large. Assuming nothing fundamental changes, (and I have no reason to believe anything will change, fundamentally), you'll be asking this question again tomorrow. And next week, next year, ad nauseum. You can add one new thing to this, "Are you any closer to the end of your patience at refuting baseless accusations?" If that answer is yes, then you're on the path to the end of this cycle. You can short circuit a lot of the grief by just ending it now, unless you're into that kind of masochism. Or you can ride it out. If your answer to the question is no, then you will ride because it will continue. You know this. Ask yourself what you're trying to find justification for? Will you become more trustworthy? Can you prove it? Think about it. zippyt: hehe "Get shed" sweet. with your permission, I would like to add that to my vocabulary. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

04-04-2007, 10:36 AM	#7
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	The amount of time she spends "digging" bothers me. Anyone who spends that much effort looking for dirt isn't someone I would spend my time with -- who wants to date a person dedicated to bringing you down? I feel for you, if you really love her. __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

04-04-2007, 10:44 AM	#8
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	this or this. GTFOOT ASAP Attached Images __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

04-04-2007, 11:05 AM	#9
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I agree...get out. Hypothetically, say you were cheating in some fashion. So, her repeated jealousy makes you stop cheating. Not because you wanted to stop, but because of being sick of the wrath. You can't force other people to be what you want. When someone pressures someone into marriage, when someone tells someone they can't go out with their friends, when someone won't let you talk to other people they think you might be attracted to: completely innocent or completely guilty is irrelevant. When you force someone to do anything except what they would normally do, you are planting the seeds of resentment. It may take 2 months, 2 years, 20 years...but one day you'll think: I had to walk on eggshells to make this life liveable, and in the process I left parts of myself behind. People are going to be who they're going to be. You, however, seem to be incurring wrath for no reason. Just think what would happen if you accidentally forgot to be someone else and, say, ran into an old g/f on the street, and talked to her. I think all hell would break loose. Not a fun way to live. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

04-06-2007, 03:15 PM	#3
Hime Extraordinary Machine Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Outside of Washington, DC Posts: 307	Personal story: I met my fiance, who is several years older than me, on a message board where he had something of a reputation for being a player. Before we started talking to each other, I'd seen plenty of pictures of him posing with cute girls at parties and conventions, and, since I didn't think of myself as a "hottie," figured that he would have no interest in me. Most of the women in the pictures were very shapely and dressed in sexy outfits. When he first approached me and started flirting with me, I was very surprised and figured that it would last just about until he found out what I looked like. Turns out I was wrong. But it took me quite a while to accept that I didn't have to compete with the girls that he had dated previously. I kept thinking that he was just dating me because he felt like he should grow up and have a "serious" relationship (i.e. one with low physical attraction). It's sometimes difficult to realize how other people see you. Since that time I have come to the shocking realization that lots of people find me attractive, but for a long time I really didn't believe that someone could see me that way. Maybe your girlfriend has similar insecurities? It was a similar situation to the one you describe, Predicament, in that he had dated quite a few women but had never been in love, and most of the relationships had been very short. He is very confident and if he saw a woman who looked cute, he had no problem asking her out to dinner! Totally unlike me; I've always been one to obsess about someone for weeks before making a move. It was difficult for me to accept at first that his relationship with me was different not because I was less attractive physically than the past girlfriends, but because there were other aspects to the relationship besides physical attraction. In summation, I don't blame your gf for being nervous about this. While she was out of line to guess your password instead of just talking to you, it is scary for those of us with limited sexual experience to think about our partners being with someone else! She probably does not think of herself as very sexy, or worries that her lack of experience means that she is not as good in bed. If you really love her, you aren't going to dump her based on the advice of random internet people. But you should talk to her about her anxieties and what she can do to feel more confident. If I were her, I would most want to hear that you feel lucky to be with a woman like her and that you think about her all the time. Reassure her that you choose her over other women, but let her know that she is hurting both of you by obsessing over your past and that she needs to find the confidence to let it go. Let her know that you will help her with that however you can. Whatever you do, please don't use the "you are attractive, but your insecurity is unattractive" line. I hate that one because it sends the message that she isn't allowed to talk about her anxieties, which will just make them worse. Good luck!

04-04-2007, 10:14 AM	#4
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	Wow, that would be hard man. Part of you feels so strong for her but her jealousy issue is really an issue. I guess stepping back and reevaluating the relationship is the only thing you can really do. See if she's on page 4 of the courtship guide, not page 1, trying to find dirt on you. Miniscule things like past ex's that aren't a factor anymore shouldn't disrupt a healthy loving relationship, at all! If you guys don't have a common goal in the relationship then I don't know if things will work out. But I feel for you, brother.

04-04-2007, 12:56 PM	#11
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Oh, yeah, and Foot3 left out another means of quick transport you might want to consider in your quest to be free: __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby Last edited by Shawnee123; 09-25-2007 at 11:49 AM.

04-04-2007, 01:00 PM	#12
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	...there's no place like home there's no place like home there's no place like home... __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

04-04-2007, 01:06 PM	#13
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	As others have suggested, sit down and come to some kind of agreement because this is NOT something I could live with. You will be walking around on pins and needles waiting for the next hammer to drop. This is the kind of person who will force you to isolate yourself from all relationships except those that she approves of or supervises. Fuck that. Agree she gets over it, or dump her ass. I would never consider spending time with someone like that no matter how beautiful she is. And remember this, for every really hot chick you meet out there, there is some guy who is tired of her shit. Start looking for the plain Jane's, they are more level headed and more fun to be with in the long run. Good luck. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

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