The Blasphemy Challenge

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Beestie

The ten commandments (or 15 if you believe Mel Brooks) are not Christian. They pre-date Jesus by a considerable span of time and are referenced in varying degrees by Christians, Jews and Muslims alike and so could not possibly offend any member of the big three religions.

Loved your analysis. Nice work, buddy.

From what book are the courts getting these commandments, the exact wording, specifically?

Regardless of that, separation of church and state means any church.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

From what book are the courts getting these commandments, the exact wording, specifically?

Regardless of that, separation of church and state means any church.

Separation of church and state. Not separation of religion and state. The whole idea of this was a rebellion against the Church of England. I think its a bit of a stretch to allege that a copy of the non-church specific ten commandments on public property is as egregious as a state-sponsored church. Unless you are making the "slippery slope" argument in which case I'll point out that two tablets in the courthouse lobby over a 250 year period isn't exactly a greased pig on a waterslide.

Separation of church and state. Not separation of religion and state

[Beestie]

Nothing further, your honor.

There is nothing confrontational by just stating your belief or lack thereof.
Theists choose to take it personally, though it is not about them, at all. We care not about that, don't acknowledge it, and have no reason to.
I put no words in your mouth.

[KGZotU]

There's denotation, and then there's connotation. If you honestly don't believe that this is confrontational, I won't challenge your assessment.

To me, however, it is clear that Brian Flemming is erring on the side of arrogance. Look at the title, "The Blasphemy Challenge". I think we can agree that blasphemy is a connotatively negative word. Challenge is at once a celebration of skill and an invitation. Why choose an offensive word to revel in, when there are plenty of denotative synonyms? Why not the "Atheist Affirmation Project" or something similar? Why must you specifically flaunt scripture in order to 'rise to the challenge' and 'win a fabulous prize'.

If this is purely about supporting a community, shouldn't you just be able to say, "I've been an atheist since I was 13," or, "I don't feel like I can tell anyone else, but I've never really felt the need to believe in God." Instead you must deny the existence of God, often by relegating him to the class of non-existent entities which defined your childhood.

rkzenrage, you did not put words in my mouth. You responded to words that had been put in my mouth. (;

--Joe

[KGZotU]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Are you saying that atheists should be respectful of all religions when all others have free reign. You are making a double standard for Christians and you can't do that. You can't just point out atheist's mistakes and ignore Christians.

How can you deny the holy spirit without being confrontational? They are saying that they do not believe in the holy spirit. You do not have to watch it and you have to respect other people's views.

piercehawkeye,

It's preposterous to suggest that I've created a double standard. Where have a I set a standard for Christians or any other group?

Why am I discussing atheists in general and The Blasphemy Project specifically? That's the topic of this thread. Furthermore, the righteous do not act in kind to their antagonists; they act righteously.

What would be a non-confrontational way to proclaim yourself an atheist? I answered this above:

Originally Posted by KGZotU

If this is purely about supporting a community, shouldn't you just be able to say, "I've been an atheist since I was 13," or, "I don't feel like I can tell anyone else, but I've never really felt the need to believe in God."

An intentionally confrontational method to encourage others to deny God would be producing a video which begins by establishing the profound importance of proper Christianity, and then ridiculing that proposition by encouraging people to damn themselves eternally in exchange for a video.

--Joe

[Undertoad]

There's a cloyingly sweet little tale that's almost universal... in response to a child asking, if there's Mother's Day and Father's Day, why isn't there a Children's Day? And the parent replies, Every day is Children's Day.

Well I'm here to tell you: Every Day is Christian's Day.

You may not have been aware of this.

Y'see, when Linus goes into the speech about the Real Meaning of Christmas, non-Christians don't say anything.

When someone at a dinner says first let us bow our heads and say grace, almost all of us politely bow our heads and pretend to pray. We may even say Amen.

For two years, I worked for an employer that put "Reverence for God and all His Works" into their Official Company List of Values. I just shut up, did a good job and collected my paycheck.

So now you find the name of this thing to be a little in-your-face? How DARE people actively proclaim that they don't agree with you!

Well you poor thing! How hard it must be for you! Let me call you the WAAAAAHBULANCE!!!

[KGZotU]

I guess I should consider myself 'pwned' by your invocation of the 'WAAAAAHBULANCE!!!'

I think you misunderstand my argument.

I am not attempting to suggest an 'equivalent' response to Christianity. I am not attempting to circumscribe the 'rights' of atheists. My argument does not depend upon the actions of Christians, and hence your objections are invalid.

You see arrogance? I do not think that arrogance should be met with arrogance. I think that this is true in general, and I think that it is particularly true in the case of this 'atheist PR crisis.' My personal feelings aside, I'm trying to suggest a prudent, responsible and effective course for atheists.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

So now you find the name of this thing to be a little in-your-face? How DARE people actively proclaim that they don't agree with you!

I don't remember establishing that they disagree with me.

--Joe

Edit: Image removed from quote.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

There's a cloyingly sweet little tale that's almost universal... in response to a child asking, if there's Mother's Day and Father's Day, why isn't there a Children's Day? And the parent replies, Every day is Children's Day.

Well I'm here to tell you: Every Day is Christian's Day.

You may not have been aware of this.

Y'see, when Linus goes into the speech about the Real Meaning of Christmas, non-Christians don't say anything.

When someone at a dinner says first let us bow our heads and say grace, almost all of us politely bow our heads and pretend to pray. We may even say Amen.

For two years, I worked for an employer that put "Reverence for God and all His Works" into their Official Company List of Values. I just shut up, did a good job and collected my paycheck.

I'm very faith-friendly. Mostly because the people who raised me, and to whom I owe a huge debt of gratitude, still practise their faith.

But this post is outstanding for me in its candour, its clarity and in stating the facts exactly as I live them. And courtesy. Until the ambulance - but that was funny.

Thanks UT - this message is now filed away.

[SteveDallas]

Y'all need to pardon me. I ignore almost 100% of religious combat threads. I checked out this one because of UT's Hall of Fame nomination. I haven't read 90% of the posts.

Originally Posted by wolf

I do not presume, however, to restrict your, or anyone else's public expression of your religion. I am not in any way harmed by the posting of the Ten Commandments on the courthouse wall, nor am I offended by a nativity in the public square.

Fair enough... does it bother you when such displays are funded with [your] tax dollars?

Originally Posted by Undertoad

There's a cloyingly sweet little tale that's almost universal... in response to a child asking, if there's Mother's Day and Father's Day, why isn't there a Children's Day? And the parent replies, Every day is Children's Day.

Well, UT, you should have been in the car when my daughter asked this one. I guess I'm not a good parent, because I didn't say "every day." Instead, I asked her what kind of holiday Children's Day was. She explained to me how all children over the age of 7 would be pampered and showered with every imaginable gift and reward. She also spent a considerable amount of time detailing the torments and suffering that Children's Day would bring to those persons under the age of 4. (They are, presumably, not considered actual "children." I'm sure I don't need to tell you how old the kids were at the time. I'm afraid she still hasn't forgiven the boy for being born and, Copernicus-like, removing her from the center of the universe.)

[wolf]

Welcome, KGZ. You've come to the right place.

[piercehawkeye45]

You would imply with your posts that I said Christians do not display arrogance or superiority, when it is clear that I said nothing of the sort. My focus was clearly on the actions, options, and opportunities of atheists.

And I am showing the other side. Yes, some atheists will show arrogance but every religion does that so don't pick out atheists when everyone is doing it.

I suggest that many atheists do not wish to be treated as equal, because such treatment would remove their license to feel superior over others.

This is horrible logic. Every religion has people that feel superior to others. Every religion would be doing the same thing atheists are doing right now, so that is human nature. Don't accuse atheists of doing something that everyone does.

[piercehawkeye45]

I am not attempting to suggest an 'equivalent' response to Christianity. I am not attempting to circumscribe the 'rights' of atheists. My argument does not depend upon the actions of Christians, and hence your objections are invalid.

Are you saying that atheists should be respectful of all religions when all others have free reign. You are making a double standard for Christians and you can't do that. You can't just point out atheist's mistakes and ignore Christians.

How can you deny the holy spirit without being confrontational? They are saying that they do not believe in the holy spirit. You do not have to watch it and you have to respect other people's views.