Should taxpayer dollars be used to fund private education?

[yesman065]

How bout we spend the money better to improve the public schools lessening the need or desire for privatized education? Perhaps if we actually tried to fix what is broken instead of abandoning "the 99", we would not need to have as many private schools, thereby lessening the burdon on the system.
I don't believe that one cent should be spent on private education - period. Thats why its called private not public.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by yesman065

How bout we spend the money better to improve the public schools lessening the need or desire for privatized education?

What is the goal of education? The state has goals for your children, do you?

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by Griff

What is the goal of education? The state has goals for your children, do you?

Absolutely! The states goals for my children and my goals may or may not be very different. My goals are for my children to be properly prepared for college and beyond. The state may recognize that some children may not have the drive, desire or whatever to go onto college and therefore their goals may be different. I recognize that in some places the goal is just to get them through - that is not all I want.

[Griff]

Luisa may want to look at this-

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/index.htm

I didn't realize that Gatto had fleshed out his ideas about American education. We apparently see a lot of this the same way. When you look at his ideas remember that he was New York's teacher of the year in '91.

[tw]

What do private schools teach? Why do conservative Christian colleges do particularly poor at education? This was demonstrated in the Cellar on 3 Aug 2006 entitled:
Evolution’s Backers in Kansas Start Counterattack Substancially missing in their curriculum was math and science. Calculus and statistics not taught. No wonder a student is so easily manipulated in attributing it all to god. As one student from a Christian College noted (when his only math is called business math - better called accounting); we are being trained to spread the word. How is that any different from Middle East Madrassas so criticized by conservative western leaders; schools that also train extremism – religious inspired politics? Why would we criticize Middle East governments for financing their 'private' schools and yet do same domestically?

Just like reasoning for Saddam’s WMDs, this advantage by financing private schools is predicated on popular myths. If the problem is quality of education in public schools, then fix the problem. Instead micromangers want to impose massive programs from the top without first learning the problem. Will throwing money at a problem solve it? Yes when the micromanger comes from business schools. But then those same people said Einstein could run any restaurant better – a concept taught to micromanagers in business schools.

Will making class sized smaller solve all problems? Yes where the micromanger read some study – rather than also read the other studies that demonstrate no. But again, the devil is in the details. Micromanagement is the concept behind “No child left behind”. I don’t know any education industry professional who talks kindly of that micromagement example. Details quickly get lost in executive summaries and micromanagement. Forgetting details – such as what is the problem – and taxpayers should now finance private schools.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by tw

Will making class sized smaller solve all problems?

Nothing would solve all problems.

Making class size smaller would solve some problems. If class size were irrelevant, then there would be lecture halls in elementary schools.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Making class size smaller would solve some problems. If class size were irrelevant, then there would be lecture halls in elementary schools.

And again, I am the one criticizing that proposal for reasons after reasons - including no numbers. Using exactly what they posted, then this statement agrees with what they said: "Class sizes should be 3 students per teacher to solve education problems". Did they post anything to the contrary? No. Did we not learn from George Jr who also promoted wish-washy solutions using same reasoning?

Meanwhile we have lecture halls in elementary schools. They are rooms with desks for 30 kids.

How many posted based upon myths that private schools are better? Why did I let this thread go so far before finally posting facts? I waited for someone to discuss from reality rather than from assumptions - post numbers. No numbers means junk science was being used.

For every study that says class sizes of 15 is better, another study takes the same facts to prove 30 is just as sufficient. It is a wash no different than electric fields created cancer in kids. It is arguing over WMDs because they must exist rather than first asking some damning questions, demanding numbers, and addressing the problem.

Why did Saddam have WMDs? Because he had to make everyone believe that lie. No one bothered to first address the problem; therefore knew Saddam must have WMDs for the same reason that smaller class sizes must work. Work? Work to solve what? What is this problem that smaller class sizes miraculously solves? Why was the education system so much better back when class sized averaged 30 per teacher? What changed? Again, when do we define the problem before (instead) imposing solutions?

Again, based upon what others have posted, they want 3 students per teacher? Why did they not post a number? That is the first symptom of junk science alive and well. It is a 'feel good' solution; therefore it must be right. This is what Rush Limbaugh and George Jr did to promote 'No child left behind'. When do we first define the problem?

Did anybody learn this lesson from a liar named George Jr? Why so many solutions without even defining the problem?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by tw

Meanwhile we have lecture halls in elementary schools. They are rooms with desks for 30 kids.

That's a classroom. A lecture hall holds over 100 (and 100 would be a small one), and is generally encountered for the first time in college.

Originally Posted by tw

For every study that says class sizes of 15 is better, another study takes the same facts to prove 30 is just as sufficient.

Or, how about 45? Why not 60?