oh! youre a feminist? how cute!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Or somebody will want what you've got and take it if they can. You can only have what you can defend. And being the biggest bad-ass on the block doesn't guarantee the bigger bad-ass on the next block won't covet your stuff.

So ladies, get involved in the process of running this country....you are the majority, remember. Grind down, or replace, the politicians until they give you the schools, parks, social programs, or whatever you want. Just never make the mistake, that the boys and their tanks and planes are just big over priced play toys. Defending what you've got, is very serious business and paramount to the utopia you want.

Get real, you're never gonna have it all. But rather than grouse about it, why not see how much you can get by getting involved. You may be surprised.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Or somebody will want what you've got and take it if they can. You can only have what you can defend. And being the biggest bad-ass on the block doesn't guarantee the bigger bad-ass on the next block won't covet your stuff.

So ladies, get involved in the process of running this country....you are the majority, remember. Grind down, or replace, the politicians until they give you the schools, parks, social programs, or whatever you want. Just never make the mistake, that the boys and their tanks and planes are just big over priced play toys. Defending what you've got, is very serious business and paramount to the utopia you want.

Get real, you're never gonna have it all. But rather than grouse about it, why not see how much you can get by getting involved. You may be surprised.

Wow, I didn't think I was grousing...just thinking and expressing.

Guess I'll slowly back out of this thread. It's obviously dedicated solely to fact and leaves no room for pondering.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So ladies, get involved in the process of running this country....you are the majority, remember. Grind down, or replace, the politicians until they give you the schools, parks, social programs, or whatever you want. Just never make the mistake, that the boys and their tanks and planes are just big over priced play toys. Defending what you've got, is very serious business and paramount to the utopia you want.

Get real, you're never gonna have it all. But rather than grouse about it, why not see how much you can get by getting involved. You may be surprised.

Hmm, a little condescending and assumptive...but I still love you.

Do not fear, Bruce. Many women of influence are on the same page with you on the subject of a balanced society--plus we also have plenty of ladies whose agendas fall on either side of the balance. Many women want the toys, too. And it's not just women who strive for utopia.

That's what feminism is about--that women are regular human beings, regardless of intelligence or position.

That has always bothered me... women gripe, but don't vote & don't run.
No room to gripe.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

That has always bothered me... women gripe, but don't vote & don't run.
No room to gripe.

Women do vote--campaigns recognize this, and focus many campaign materials specifically on 'women's issues' (whether conservative or liberal). And they run, and win--for example, the number of women in Congress keeps going up with each term.

And c'mon, everybody gripes.

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Women do vote--campaigns recognize this, and focus many campaign materials specifically on 'women's issues' (whether conservative or liberal). And they run, and win--for example, the number of women in Congress keeps going up with each term.

And c'mon, everybody gripes.

Women vote in far fewer numbers than males. They are the majority, if they voted they would run this nation... but they don't want to.
Fine, gripe, but if you don't vote you've got no reason to.

[Cloud]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Women vote in far fewer numbers than males.

I'm not sure this is accurate. A quick search shows several sources saying more women than men have voted for decades. Here's data from the US Census bureau stating that more women were registered to vote than men, and more women voted in the 2004 election than men:

http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/p20-556.pdf

[xoxoxoBruce]

Thanks Cloud, now we know who to blame Bush on.

The other day I stopped at a Dairy Queen for the first time in probably 10 years. As I was ordering, a woman walked up to the window so after I paid, I stepped aside for her to order while I was waiting.
She came up short on the money, mumbling "I'll have to come back", while digging through her purse, wallet and coin purse, obviously frustrated and embarrassed. I asked how much she needed and the cashier answered, so I handed her a buck. A buck is not a big deal, I've done it dozens of times for men and women...end of story.

Except this time was the first I remember, that I hesitated for a second wondering if I was going to get the 'independent woman' tirade. Not really afraid of it, just weary.
Little old ladies at the supermarket are great, priceless smile.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Hmm, a little condescending and assumptive...but I still love you.

Do not fear, Bruce. Many women of influence are on the same page with you on the subject of a balanced society--plus we also have plenty of ladies whose agendas fall on either side of the balance. Many women want the toys, too. And it's not just women who strive for utopia.

That's what feminism is about--that women are regular human beings, regardless of intelligence or position.

Condescending, not at all, just showing how history dictates that strength is necessary.
Assumptive? Maybe... there's no sure way for me to know what someone else is thinking. I can only go by what they communicate.

When men get together for a beer, I never hear one say, wishfully, why do we have to fight, why can't we all get along?
But, I do hear women taking pot shots about how if they were in power instead of men, there wouldn't be any wars and all that defense money could be spent on social improvements.
Now these are both gross generalizations, but both statements are the distilled impression I have, gleaned from 60 years of observation.

Feminism = equality, doesn't it?
Flirting and sexual tension aside, I've been for that since it appeared in the sixties. OK, I was aware of the sweet old ladies going to jail so you could vote. And growing up in the 40s and 50s, I saw a lot of cruel patriarchs. But in the 1964 my wife worked for an Insurance Company in Boston that required women to wear nylons and not smoke in, or near, the building.... when men smoked at their desks. That ain't right. So when the movement came to the forefront, it was awfully hard for a reasonable and rational human being to argue with the premise. It's right, it's fair, it's just.

That said, in practice it's not so easy. Equal pay, equal opportunity, equal consideration are pretty straight forward. But, I keep running into women that have a different take on the details. Some want equal treatment but want to keep certain privileges, whereas some will punch you for attempting to open a door for them.

If a woman says she is in favor of X and I say I disagree, I favor Y. Then she says why is it you men never understand, never get it? Well, wtf. Why did I bother considering X? Why am I genetically defective because I don't agree?
You see, I'm having trouble determining where feminism draws the line on what the constitutes the difference between opinion and sexist opinion.
If I don't say I disagree because your a woman, why should you make that assumption?

Back to the subject. Women are the majority, if the country is moving in the wrong direction, it's your fault. Oww, unfair? Because women are not all the same and fall on both sides of any debate? Well, the same goes for men, so I don't want to hear, you men, blah, blah, blah.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That said, in practice it's not so easy. Equal pay, equal opportunity, equal consideration are pretty straight forward. But, I keep running into women that have a different take on the details. Some want equal treatment but want to keep certain privileges, whereas some will punch you for attempting to open a door for them.

If a woman says she is in favor of X and I say I disagree, I favor Y. Then she says why is it you men never understand, never get it? Well, wtf. Why did I bother considering X? Why am I genetically defective because I don't agree?
You see, I'm having trouble determining where feminism draws the line on what the constitutes the difference between opinion and sexist opinion.
If I don't say I disagree because your a woman, why should you make that assumption?

I agree the lines are blurred and everything is taken personally now days. I still think there is work to be done on salary parity. Other than that I stopped holding the door for any woman other than my wife, elderly people, or people who looked like they needed help. You want things to be equal, let them be equal, both ways. I have never had a woman hold a door for me other than my mother when I was like 6 years old. No special treatment for people because they are female, minority, gay, or any other reason.