Picking Up in the Middle of the Argument...

[DanaC]

It's pretty much intellectually dishonest to claim that communism 'works', but that every country in which it has been implemented, and failed, just hasn't done it correctly.

My point is not that communism 'works' but has yet to be correctly implemented; rather my point is that it is an idea that can exist in theory only. It's a theoretical construct that does not work when implemented in the real world. That doesn't mean I don't think it has anything to offer as a theory. None of our systems derive from a single source. You no more live in a pure state of capitalism than can I live in a pure state of communism.

The fact is that communism and socialism exist in their pure form only in the realm of theory.

[orthodoc]

Originally Posted by DanaC

It's a theoretical construct that does not work when implemented in the real world.

We can agree on that, anyway.

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by DanaC

My point is not that communism 'works' but has yet to be correctly implemented; rather my point is that it is an idea that can exist in theory only. It's a theoretical construct that does not work when implemented in the real world. That doesn't mean I don't think it has anything to offer as a theory. None of our systems derive from a single source. You no more live in a pure state of capitalism than can I live in a pure state of communism.

In ISRAEL it is "correctly implemented".

If the government we have now is an example of conservatism, please give me anything but. Christianity has become the State religion, although everyone pretends otherwise; prejudice toward certain groups is encouraged - like gays, people who live at or near the poverty line, hispanics (they're all illegal immigrants); etc. The government keeps people in line through fear tactics - what's the terrorism rating for today? Yellow? Red? Homeland security has taken our individual rights to privacy away, Congress is busily crunching up the Bill of Rights to the point where soon those words will mean about as much as some slick comedy routine; thousands of people are being held in prisons without access to either an attorney or a fair and speedy trial; torture is now acceptable; and Halliburten continues to gloat as its CEO's and stockholders rake in the benefits of corporate welfare on a magnificent scale.

I had to go up to the wealthy ski resort of Telluride today regarding a legal matter I posted about in another thread. My Zuni friend came along with me for the ride. He wandered around town while I was at the courthouse filling out endless legal forms. When we met up again, he spat on the sidewalk and said, "Let's get out of here. This is the most unfriendly town I've ever been to." Well, Telluride has a high percentage of Mexican workers who clean the rich folks condo's or do the janitorial work, etc. People mistook my Zuni friend for one of "those people" who are not supposed to be strolling the main street of Telluride with all its chic shops and elegant, over-priced restaurants.

My Zuni friend looked around at the wealthy white yuppies giving him a wide path on the sidewalk, and said "Stupid wetbacks! I wish they'd all go back home."

Conservatism. Pfffffft!

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Tonchi

In ISRAEL it is "correctly implemented".

And yet the self-styled capitalists in the GOP remain up Israels *cough*.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Griff

And yet the self-styled capitalists in the GOP remain up Israels *cough*.

Capitalism goes with democracy, Griff, as it prospers best there. All one nigh-seamless whole. A good capitalist is a democrat and a good democrat supports democracies over anything else or he's not much of a democrat. The same should apply, I should think, to libertarians.

[Griff]

My point was that Israel is a socialist state and the GOP isn't exactly capitalist either, being concerned mostly with protecting industries and distributing tax dollars. Given enough democracy Capitalism will cease to exist.


The neo-com agenda is far too enamored of state exercised force to include libertarians.