If you outlaw guns, then only....

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

...Did I "make the country a safer place" or "blahblahblah reduce crime blahblahblah"? No. But the presence of a weapon kept me from being a victim. And I don't care for people telling me that they don't think I should have that right. If other people are misusing their rights, take it up with them. I have nothing to do with it.

The ultimate question is this:

If the two guys had persisted, and tried to take your stuff, would you have killed them? Is "stuff" worth more than the lives of those two guys?

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Is "stuff" worth more than the lives of those two guys?

Yes.

What value do you place on the lives of thugs? Why?

[Pangloss62]

Holy crap! 17 pages of argument and rancor about...GUNS! Imagine that. I think that speaks to the fanaticism of much of their owners (ok, and their opponents).

Since I started this thread, I think I can chime in now, 17 pages later.

Indeed...and do take that animistic idea that objects can be implicitly evil (rather than people) with you.

In regards to the above quote from the ever-lovable Maggie, I don't think I ever stated or even implied (I'm confused by her use of the word "implicitly" regarding evil objects) that guns, or any object for that matter, were themselves evil. I don't even believe in the concept of evil anyway.

It's always about people. All one has to do is look at the magazine rack at any major supermarket and see how obsessive gun owners can be. What cracks me up is that most of the guns they obsess over are assualt weapons. Let's face it, guns make people feel and be powerful, but I don't think it's the power to stop genocide like one cellarite said. I doubt he's gonna take his guns to Darfur to stop that one. But he says he's got my pansy, non-gun-toting back in case a genocide happens here. Should I laugh or cry?

I would insert my "neutral" emoticon after that last sentence, but Flint said he was getting bummed out by my overuse of it, so I will defer to him because he's one of the more rational posters here in what can at times be a very muggy (perhaps maggie) cellar.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

All one has to do is look at the magazine rack at any major supermarket and see how obsessive gun owners can be.

The accuracy of magazine covers in forming an understanding people who own guns is about as accurate as any other stereotype you would build from the same source. About single men, perhaps? Car lovers, body builders...what do they obsess about, according to magazine covers? How about married women?

If you want to actually understand gun owners, visit a shooting range. Perhaps even learn to shoot.

On the other hand, if all you want to do is reenforce your own preconceptions, the magzaine rack will do.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

Let's face it, guns make people feel and be powerful, but I don't think it's the power to stop genocide like one cellarite said.

Genocide is only a series of murders. Armed people are harder to kill. Most genocodes begin with disarming the targets.

Here's an account of how this applies in Darfur, since that's the example you chose.