If you outlaw guns, then only....

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Having a firearm means you don't have to be a prisoner of fear and avoid places.

Is that a fair trade off for having to kill someone?

You know that logic is flawed.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

i disagree

That's probably because you've never been raped before lumber.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

If you keep it a capital-R right, NOT a privilege granted to those favored by the State (Nazi Weapons Law of 1934, for an obvious instance) you reduce crime to the tune of a couple billion in assets and productivity preserved each and every year, and you make genocides impractical. These are always good things, and Spexx's manifest hoplophobia complex does not and cannot make them otherwise.

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Is that a fair trade off for having to kill someone?

As a fair tradeoff for not having to be killed by someone, I'd call it more than fair. Stop asking people with more sense than you're showing to submit to murder, Spexx! It's unbecoming, immoral, unfair, and really pretty slimy! If you don't become an advocate of self-defense by all means, you cannot ever be a good man -- think about what that means.

Remember that Spexx is vigorously and repeatedly projecting his subconscious urge to kill -- subconscious because he cannot consciously accept it, however better adjusted he might be if he did -- onto gun-owning folk more sensible (on this matter) than he. It helps to invalidate his entire argument, and frankly, that's a good thing.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Is that a fair trade off for having to kill someone?

Blaming the victim is pretty much a reflex for you, isn't it? If someone "had to be killed", as you put it, who is responsible for creating that necssesity? Obviously it's the person who was attacked, that poor criminal had nothing at all to do with it.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Go get him Maggie! This kind of "thinking" has to be not merely defeated, but annihilated -- never held by persons not confined in an institution ever again!

[Aliantha]

Thanks for the laugh UG. lol

[Ibby]

I think its funny how in every single case except gun control, the democrats are for staying out of it and letting the people have their freedom, and in every case except gun control, the republicans are for them telling you exactly what you can and cant do.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

That's probably because you've never been raped before lumber.

possibly. however, you said:

Originally Posted by Aliantha
Spex...in my very humble opinion, I think you would be better served not to quote lines like that in an open forum where there are women present who have been the vicitm of rape.

it seems to me, that if we worried about offending everyone that has had some misfortune in their lives, this would be a verrry boring place.

I don't want to belittle whatever experience you've had with this particular topic. I just want to point out that when a victim of a crime(or any bad mojo, for that matrter) experiences their victimization, it is their perception that changes, not the rest of the world. YOU may be better served if he did not make light of rape. you really can't expect people to see things through your eyes though. admonishing him for it is rather unfair, actually.

[Aliantha]

We all have a social responsibility to care for our fellow men and women.

To extrapolate that statement, we have a community here and it is a community which, from what I've seen, values respect in its posters with regard to personal issues.

As a poster, I feel it's not unfair to ask that other posters respect the fact that this is an issue which a) effects me personally and b) more than likely effects at least several others.

With that in mind, I don't think it's too much to ask people to lay off rape jokes.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

We all have a social responsibility to care for our fellow men and women.

I say so too.

Where we are not yet in agreement is that I say this is true regardless of how much violence the antisocialoids may bring to bear. And we must never impair the ability to repel even the most comprehensive violence.

[Aliantha]

Well, maybe that's because I'd rather solve the problem of violence in society before it begins rather than waiting for it to happen then blowing it up.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

People blindly insist on believing that I'd like to wait that long, too. Nuh uh! It should go without saying that I believe in the holistic approach to these things -- right up to resisting to the death anyone who escaped being repaired before going homicidal. That's just plain morals.

[Aliantha]

Well it's nice to see a conservative willing to concede such a point although concede isn't exactly the right word. Maybe agree is better.

When I think about gun control laws in Australia, I'm always forced to remember when Martin Bryant shot 35 people dead which brought on a referendum and strict gun control laws were brought in. A knee jerk reaction which really hasn't solved anything. We still have the same levels of crime and in fact, they're higher than they were, but that's fairly standard across the board for most western countries at the moment. Mr Bryant is locked up in an institution and the 35 people are still dead. If members of the public had had weapons perhaps he would have been shot down sooner, or perhaps more people would have died.

The biggest problem with this argument is that it's almost impossible to resolve even between reasonable people simply because if you have it one way, you can't have it the other and if you can't make the comparison, then there's really only heresay and conjecture.

I believe this is why I don't think it really matters whether everyone or no one has access to guns. It's how people view society that matters, and that's the real problem that needs solving.

[lumberjim]

i don't disagree that it may be uncomfortable for you to hear even the word 'rape'. but can you really expect not to? would you be willing to lay off every topic that makes any one of us uncomfortable here? if I told you that the term 'heart attack' gives me pause, would you refrain from using it? if topics involving someone cheating on their spouse cause painfull associations for a dwellar, should we all stay away from jokes about it?

besides, spex's comment wasn't even a joke about rape, really. it was a word joke. you could have substituted any of the other words from that quote, and it would have been funny. and it WAS a quote. it's not like he really enjoys raping people.

if i seem low to you at the moment, you might consider riding a shorter horse.