If you outlaw guns, then only....

[mrnoodle]

This thread is balanced. That makes me warm and fuzzy inside. Carry on.

[Shawnee123]

I noticed that hoplophobia, which I at first thought was the fear of rabbits, is not recognized in the DSM.

I think I'm suffering from pseudophobiaphobia!

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I noticed that hoplophobia, which I at first thought was the fear of rabbits, is not recognized in the DSM.

That is a great point, Shawnee!

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

That is a great point, Shawnee!

Why, thank you. I'm staying out of the debate because I've had all the conflict I can take for one week, but I thought it was important to note!

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I noticed that hoplophobia, which I at first thought was the fear of rabbits, is not recognized in the DSM.

Yes, and homosexuality used to be *in* the DSM. Stuff goes in and out of the DSM for political reasons all the time.

I vote for someone to give Ibram a gun to shoot UG!

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

This thread is balanced. That makes me warm and fuzzy inside. Carry on.

Don't get all noodley on us.

What does the gun freedom contingent propose as a solution? The facts that they lay out seem to be, and please correct me if I'm wrong:

- Guns are no more responsible for the high rate of firearm deaths in our country than spoons are for the low rate of spoon deaths - if it weren't for humans, there would be no deaths from either weapon.

- Everybody who passes "the screening" should be able to carry a handgun, and should carry said weapon.

- Americans have a constitutional right to possess firearms, and the constitution should not be changed, including all that stuff about no slaves and allowing women to vote.

- Eliminating hand guns would not reduce the level of damage being done, any more than making rocket propelled grenades legal and easy to get would increase the level of damage.

- Fear and stupidity are leading causes of problems associates with firearms.

- Making guns illegal would ensure that only criminals had guns, making the rest of the population helpless victims, just as those of us without guns are helpless victims now.

- Making guns illegal will create a whole new “gun smuggling” industry.

- As much damage can be done using a knife as using a gun.

- A rifle or shotgun will not be as useful defending yourself/your possessions as a handgun will be.

- There are many armed bad people near all of us, just waiting for us to be unarmed, so that we can be killed or our possessions taken from us. Shooting those people is obviously the only way this situation can be resolved.

- Since it’s illegal for students and teachers to possess gun on school grounds, they won’t.

- A legally armed person is less likely to soot someone than an unarmed person.

- Having the right to possess a handgun is more important than saving the lives of innocent young girls. Especially Amish ones.

Wrapping up: the availability of handguns in our society is not the problem, since other countries have even greater rate of handgun possession, but not nearly the rate of handgun crime that we have. So, all you second ammendmenters, how do we lower the rate of handgun-associated crime in the US?

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Wrapping up: the availability of handguns in our society is not the problem, since other countries have even greater rate of handgun possession, but not nearly the rate of handgun crime that we have. So, all you second ammendmenters, how do we lower the rate of handgun-associated crime in the US?

Enforce other laws. Drug laws, crimes committed with firearms laws, etc. Send felons found in possession of illegal firearms back to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200, etc.

Stop rewarding broken families.

Interrupting the inner-city culture where drug dealers are seen as being cool, successful, and hip is the hard part. Selling someone on working for minimum wage at Mickey D's over the hundreds that fall out of your pocket by working your way up in the drug trade is not an easy thing.

[Pangloss62]

and the constitution should not be changed, including all that stuff about no slaves and allowing women to vote.

This country has a long tradition of using violence to solve problems, as well as a very deep anti-intellectualism. The ideals of the Enlightenment were not pronounced in the Colonies, and by the time of Westward expansion, guns & violence (with a heavy dose of Christian righteousness) were par for the course. When the British occupied Boston and used guns to do so, the locals resorted to guns themselves; this is not surprising. Debate over the 2nd Ammendment often centers on what was meant at the time by the "right to bear arms" as opposed to what people today want it to mean. As you pointed out, it's important to consider the historical context of the Constitution and its Ammendments. Slavery and sufferage, as well as "the right to bear arms," were all part of a historical and philosophical evolution, one that still is going on today.

Maggie overeacts by posting that presumptuous and condescending article about an alleged "phobia" of those who, like me, just don't care for guns and have found that many gun-owners are themselves fanatical, paranoid, and equally phobic in their own way. Besides, I'm not taking away Maggie's gun or her alledged "right" to own it. If I did, she'd probably shoot me anyway.

I gotta go to my black helicopter now.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Don't get all noodley on us.

On this topic at least, you can refer to wolf's opinions to get mine. Slang too, iirc. Guns=good. Lock away those who misuse guns, and leave the rest of us alone.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

... Lock away those who misuse guns,...

By then, it's a little too late, isn't it.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

...lock away those who misuse guns...

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

By then, it's a little too late, isn't it.

It's not a deterrent, it's a punishment, and a way to ensure that the person won't ever get the chance to misuse a gun again.
I've come to believe that the threat of consequences does very little to deter people from serious crimes. Shoplifting, yes. Murder/rape, no.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

It's not a deterrent, it's a punishment, and a way to ensure that the person won't ever get the chance to misuse a gun again.
I've come to believe that the threat of consequences does very little to deter people from serious crimes. Shoplifting, yes. Murder/rape, no.

I guess you're just hoping it's not your family that the guns are misused on.