Middle East erupts

[DanaC]

Nope. Blackadder goes forth, in which the British Empires strategy of only attacking countries whose people had no weaponry and stealing all their land was discussed:P

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Your other questions are from those who need to see 'good and evil' everywhere. Those citations are no different than what Rush Limbaugh does for the White House. Rhetoric for those without enough grasp to even sit through a Kristol/Holbrook/Rose interview. Classic of what the AIPAC promotes to successfully promote hype.

Yet another ejaculation of pus from the sick, fascistic mind of an evil little fucktard and naturally despicable communist. You continue to support the antidemocracies against the democracy, you scum. The only person who can love someone like you is Adolf Hitler. And he had syphilis. What's more, that crack about AIPAC says you're an anti-semite.

What do you do for an encore, visit Thailand in search of sex slaves who look like JonBenet Ramsey? I see your antidemocracy penchant keeps you bottomlessly depraved.

[DanaC]

Get a grip UG. You've just spewed out a rather disturbing part of your psyche on a public board.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by tw

Why did those we now call Hezbollah welcome Israelis with flowers and rice?

And who did it this time?

Lebanese general arrested after being filmed with IDF soldiers

A Lebanese general was ordered arrested Wednesday for appearing in a videotape drinking tea with Israeli soldiers who had occupied his south Lebanon barracks during their incursion of the country.

Brig. Adnan Daoud was summoned and ordered held for questioning, Interior Minister Ahmed Fatfat said in a statement. Daoud is commanding officer of the 1,000-strong joint police-army force that had positions in southern Lebanon and was based in Marjayoun.

Israeli troops seized the barracks there last week and held him and 350 soldiers for a day before allowing them to leave the occupied zone. The Lebanese garrison, which is lightly armed, did not resist the Israeli force which moved in armor into the base.

In the videotape, aired on Israeli television and carried by a Lebanese TV station Wednesday, Daoud was shown having tea with smiling Israeli soldiers and walking with them in the base courtyard.

Saw some of this friendly tea service video. No hatred was visible. I have the same glass mugs that the Lebanese used. I will serve tea to anyone who comes to my house.

[Undertoad]

Some of the video can be seen here:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/17/mideast.main/

In the video, the reporter roughly translates an exchange between the Lebanese general and the Israeli forces, in which they both ask whether they should notify their people. "Notify whomever you want," says one of the IDFers. "We'll notify Bush." "We'll notify Bush too," the general laughs.

But CNN did not include the general's last line in their story, without which the entire thing narrates as a complete political fireball.

You see, the story came to them via their International bureau, which is produced in Britain.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by tw

Why did those we now call Hezbollah welcome Israelis with flowers and rice?

And who welcomed whom this time? story



A Lebanese woman throws rice and rose petals at Lebanese soldiers after their arrival to the southern town of Marjayoun, Lebanon, Thursday, Aug. 17, 2006.

Abu Hussein Awad, a 58-year-old Shiite, claims the distinction of being the Lebanese civilian who lives closest to Israel. His house backs up against the Fatima Gate where Israeli troops withdrew in 2000, ending an 18-year occupation of south Lebanon.

"The army is good, I'm glad they're here," said Awad, who has lived here for 50 years - most of the time Israel has been in existence.

He was asked if he supported Hezbollah.

"I'm Lebanese. I don't like Hezbollah ... . I love Lebanon only - not America, not Iran and not Syria - just Lebanon," he said, listing the key backers of the combatants in the war.

The area of Lebanon's border with Israel was in ruins. In the towns of Adaisse and Taibeh, south and west of Kfar Kila respectively, it was difficult to find a building that was not blackened, pockmarked by artillery or flattened altogether.

Wreckage was strewn through the streets, but new Hezbollah flags flapped in the wind over piles
of rubble. In Kfar Kila, young men hung giant yellow banners above intersections. They read: "Rice, they will not see your new Mideast" and "The Great Lebanon has defeated the murderers." Both were signed, Hezbollah.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Get a grip UG. You've just spewed out a rather disturbing part of your psyche on a public board.

My grip is firmly on tw's throat. The man is a communist, on the evidence of his own writing on this forum, and he's an anti-democrat. He's going to hurt until he renounces communism and embraces democracy. Which apparently means he will hurt forever, and be forever rejected of all decent men.

Do not our foreign-policy troubles spring from the non-democracies? Tw visibly does not wish that democracies should win out, nor prevail in conflicts between the free and the unfree. How can you yourself, DanaC, not be rather disturbed at the butcher's bill the communists have rung up worldwide, just adhering to their, well, their religion, and whoring after their false prophet Marx? Depending on which numbers you believe, the casualties of communism run from eighty to one hundred million lives cut short, and a billion-odd lives stunted. Decent people reject shit like this. Indecent people object to the rejection. You figure out where you are (it's better if you come down on the side of the decent).

It is my experience that the anti-communist, the anti-totalitarian, is the pro-human. I am very pro-human. Some here are weak in that department, and willing to say so in cold print.

"For the death of such sluts I go rejoicing;
Yea, I fill all the air with my music."

--Ezra Pound, Altaforte

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Decent people reject shit like this. Indecent people object to the rejection. You figure out where you are (it's better if you come down on the side of the decent).

Mr. President? Is that you?

[DanaC]

Oh UG....I just don't know where to start. Hang on....did a vein just pop in your temple?

Do not our foreign-policy troubles spring from the non-democracies?

I would argue the well spring is firmly located in the White House.

He's going to hurt until he renounces communism and embraces democracy

This I find particularlry chucklesome. tw has on numerous occassions demonstrated his belief in democracy. You on the other hand seem to have a problem with anybody who disagrees with the current administration, or America's foreign policy. I suggest that is just the teensiest bit anti-democratic.

Tw visibly does not wish that democracies should win out, nor prevail in conflicts between the free and the unfree.

The conflicts tw has referred to are not conflicts to decide between the free and the unfree, they are conflicts primarily based on land disputes and historic enmities. It is entirely possible for an 'unfree' people to have a genuine grievance against a 'free' people. The fact that a nation is democratised, does not automatically mean that it is always in the right. But then that's the great thing about democracies.....different opinions are welcomed and debates ensue.

How can you yourself, DanaC, not be rather disturbed at the butcher's bill the communists have rung up worldwide, just adhering to their, well, their religion, and whoring after their false prophet Marx?

This I found quite amusing, since I would say that I hold a marxist analysis on the world :P As to the butcher's bill. That bill goes firmly to several deeply flawed individuals who chose to instill themselves as all-powerful dictators. Dictators of course are to be found throughout history and across the globe in many cultures. It is not a feature of 'communism' it is a feature of misrule. Your average communist ( which as I have said elsewhere I am not) does not seek dictatorship. The fact that various countries have called themseves 'communist' and then proceeded to employ the tactics of dictatorship and violence does not mena that they actually were communist. There are nations now, who claim to be democratic, but which are patently not. These are labels nations/parties/peoples apply to themselves.

Whilst we're on to death tolls. How many people died in WW1? When the world was rocked by the clash of empires? How many died to the Nuclear devastation of Hiroshima? How many died when Britain firebombed whole cities? How many died in Vietnam to Western flames? Shall we say that such a deathtoll renders 20th century democracies evil?

Millions died in China, to the excesses of Mao and many still suffer today to the human rights abuses of the Chinese government ( not least the Falun Gong practitioners). As a socialist and a Marxist, I see this as tragic and unnecessary. That is not the result of communism, it is the result of misrule.

I also suspect you have included the dead from Germany's Holocaust in that figure. I'd like to remind you that when the fascist were building their base and the brown shirts were stalking the streets, the communist party fought pitched battles with them. There is historic and bitter enmity between fascism and communism, they are polar opposites.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

It has never come to my attention that tw is in any visible or meaningful way pro-democracy. Couple this with his hostility towards the oldest and most successful (both politically and economically) democracy in the Middle East and what conclusion do you draw? Add to this his visible belief that the United States should not prevail in this war -- with people seeking to make unfreedom, I might point out! -- and where does the evidence of his own words lead? Chucklesome, quotha!

My veins are just fine, thanks.

[DanaC]

umm.....which war are we talking about again? Is that the one where America and its allies(my own country included) chose to slaughter somewhere in the region of 30,000 civilians in the opening sally, on the strict understanding that they were in some way a threat? Is that what 'free' nations do then? Launch unprovoked attacks on other sovereign nations?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

DanaC, now here is where you exhibit a terrible blindness: Iraq is not a separate war, as the defeat-America-now pundits have it, but a campaign within the wider war. Major efforts in international terrorism don't happen without national sponsorship. Shadowy terrorist groups may have no vital assets they need defend, but their national sponsors are vulnerable there. We are to teach the nations that it is very harmful to them to support anti-American bigots, or to conduct war against America by proxy means -- that in the end, it all comes out the same, and not how they wanted: that their country gets gone over by a disc harrow and plowed into fragments and dust. Then we do the Marshall Plan thing and rebuild them more in our image, whereupon they succeed in a fashion previously undreamable.

Wars are like dynamite. They do their work by smashing things. It's bootless to complain, and more constructive to clear the resulting rubble of what had previously been an objectionable obstacle.

For generations, Dana, we've been the target of every foreign idiot with a bomb and a grudge, and a few native-born idiots too (but that's a side issue), and I say we have suffered too long and too much at the hands of destructive, anti-human fools. Time for them to pay for their fun with their lives. Our antidemocracy/antihuman, totalitarian and therefore evil foes talk a lot of guff about how happy they will be to be shahidim -- well, if all of these would-be martyrs were to immediately and simultaneously fall dead and be taken up to their heaven, where they might get seventy-two Virginians instead of seventy-two virgins -- uh oh, the great bulk of our troubles in the world's Islamic regions would vanish as suddenly.

Tell me: are we in any way obliged to have petroleum resources hostage to unfriendlies? I think we are not. Anti-Americans think we should be. If these people really need something to complain about, I suppose I could always come up and pee into one or more of their pockets. I don't have much patience with the antis.

[9th Engineer]

It is unfortunate that the largest supplies of oil in the world are found in such an ass-backward area, but they have nothing else. The end of world reliance on oil will be the doom of the Arab world, as all they export is crude. It will be the most pleasurable victory the day we can get by on alternate fuels and rely only on local production for oil. The Iranians, Iraqis, and Sauds can then go back to their nomadic ways and stop being such an international eyesore.

[Hippikos]

Reading UG´s above diatribe almost made me think he´s just ironic and making a caricature of the Ugly American, but then I realised he´s dead serious...

[DanaC]

For generations, Dana, we've been the target of every foreign idiot with a bomb and a grudge, and a few native-born idiots too (but that's a side issue), and I say we have suffered too long and too much at the hands of destructive, anti-human fools.

Um....what? You've had a handful of terrorist attacks on your country. One of them was absoluetly horrific, most of them were smallfry compared to what practically every other country in the world experiences on a semi-regular basis.