North Korea fires missles

[classicman]

Will US send envoy after NKorea jails reporters?

The sentencing of two American journalists to 12 years' hard labor in North Korea on Monday sets the stage for possible negotiations with the reclusive nation for their release — perhaps involving an envoy from the United States.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the Obama administration is "pursuing every possible approach that we can consider in order to persuade the North Koreans to release them and send these young women home."

She stressed that the reporters' case and Washington's efforts to punish North Korea for its recent nuclear test are "entirely separate matters."

"We think the imprisonment, trial and sentencing of Laura and Euna should be viewed as a humanitarian matter," Clinton said. "We hope that the North Koreans will grant clemency and deport them."

Pyongyang will likely try to use them as bargaining chips in an increasingly tense standoff with the U.S. over the North's recent nuclear and missile tests.

President Barack Obama "is deeply concerned by the reported sentencing of the two American citizen journalists by North Korean authorities, and we are engaged through all possible channels to secure their release," said deputy White House spokesman William Burton.

Hope, concern... Kim has been doing this shit since I can remember. Newsweek had a great article (I can't find it online) on how he has repeatedly screwed the west "diplomatically."
China must get involved or nothing good is going to come of this. There is no way that diplomacy is going to solve the situation. Kim isn't interested and thats what it will take for it to work.

While it now appears to be only a question of time until an envoy is despatched, the Obama administration is treading carefully.

"If the Obama administration sends an envoy now to negotiate the release of the prisoners, it's highly likely that North Korea will want to discuss everything," Nicholas Szechenyi from the Centre for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

"So that individual, whoever it may be, will have to have something in response to the North Korean demands on the nuclear side."

What are we willing to concede if our ultimate goal in zero nukes? Whatever we offer, Kim sure isn't going to give up on them easily, if at all.

We can predict what will almost certainly follow. The Security Council will, at best, adopt another resolution that won’t be implemented; Russia and China, while expressing “outrage,” will call for a “balanced” approach; the U.S. Special Envoy on North Korea will speak at every opportunity about the need to resume the Talks while the State Department regional bureau will work over time to give Pyongyang what it wants in exchange for returning to the negotiations. For its part, when it determines that it has gone far enough, North Korea may offer a gesture of “good will,” such as freeing the two captive journalists after their show trial for “hostile acts.” And in time, the North will likely pause its reprocessing campaign, perhaps when it runs out of spent fuel rods. The United States will then provide oil and other assistance to get the North back. But back to normal means Pyongyang will be paid even more to stay at the table, while all the time resisting meaningful constraints on its nuclear programs. And then there will be another walk out, another crisis, and the process will start again. I know the playbook, having several times seen the sequence of events unfold from positions in the White House and State Department under President George W. Bush and earlier in a number of policy offices at the Pentagon.

Whatever the administration decides to do, the clock is certainly ticking on this one.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by classicman

China must get involved or nothing good is going to come of this. There is no way that diplomacy is going to solve the situation. Kim isn't interested and thats what it will take for it to work.

I would be really surprised if China did decide to do anything. Their "outrage" is bulllshit. The nukes are probably their technology.

What are we willing to concede if our ultimate goal in zero nukes? Whatever we offer, Kim sure isn't going to give up on them easily, if at all.

I don't think there is anything realistic that can be done to stop NK from getting more nuclear weapons. An attack is out of the question, economic sanctions won't have an effect, and China (the regional power) is not going to work with us on it.


Here is an article laying out the military capabilities of North Korea. They are quite impressive.

Following North Korea's latest spate of brinkmanship -- including everything from nuclear and missile tests to bombastic rhetoric -- one cannot help but wonder how worried we should be. Suddenly, military confrontation or worse, full-scale conflict on the Korean Peninsula, looks less like a far-off nightmare and more like an impending threat. If it happened, what kind of punches could North Korea throw?

Many assume that the country's military -- like its people -- has been starved by the regime's isolation. But the opposite is true: The key reason why the populace is so short on resources (particularly fuel and food) is because the majority of these have been routed directly to troops. As easy as it seems to dismiss the starved country and its sickly leader, North Korea's conventional military has adjusted to dire economic times and is far more capable than many analysts realize. Pyongyang's armed forces, not just its nukes, could wreak havoc on the region.

There are two aspects of today's North Korean military that warrant a careful look. The first is the near two-decades-old build up of North Korea's asymmetric forces (in this case, forces that carry out unconventional missions). The second matter is reorganization -- much of which has resulted in a significant portion of the conventional forces being moved closer to the demilitarized zone (DMZ) such that they are perpetually poised to attack the South.

North Korea has three types of asymmetric forces poised to attack South Korea, organized into long-range artillery units, short-range ballistic missile units (SRBMs), and Special Operations Forces. In the first case, Pyongyang's long-range artillery includes indigenously produced versions of Soviet 240-mm multiple rocket launchers and 170-mm guns. The country has significantly beefed up the numbers of both weapons systems along the DMZ since the late 1990s. And because the systems have ranges of 40,000 meters or more, this means that at least 250 of them are now positioned in range of Seoul. They could target the South Korean capital and surrounding areas in Kyonggi province on a moment's notice. And to exacerbate the threat, between 5 and 20 percent of the systems are thought to be equipped with chemical munitions.

All this means that the potential damage from artillery alone, according to estimates from both South Korean and U.S. Defense officials, could reach 200,000 casualties -- and that's just on the first day of an attack. If war broke out, North Korea's artillery could shell Seoul, South Korea's political, commercial, and cultural center, back to the 1980s in a matter of hours.

Short-range ballistic missiles are the second asymmetric component of North Korea's arsenal. Since the 1990s, Pyongyang has worked to enhance its ballistic missile capability in numbers, command and control, and doctrine. The North Koreans now possess 200 No Dong missiles and more than 600 SCUDs, the latter with ranges between 300 and 850 km -- enough to target literally every inch of the South Korean landmass. North Korea has also added the SS-21 system, an old Soviet platform, to its missile arsenal. Known as the KN-02, this indigenously produced version of the SS-21 uses solid fuel and can be moved very quickly. With a range of at least 120 km and greater accuracy than most other missiles, it could easily target U.S. bases south of Seoul.

These first two components -- artillery and missile -- would be used in tandem if an attack took place, thanks to a reorganization of North Korea's military during the late 1990s. Both types of forces are now commanded by artillery officers, who would (in accordance with their training doctrine) consider missile systems to simply be artillery systems with a longer range and would target them accordingly. In an attack, many of North Korea's artillery systems might aim for Seoul and much of the surrounding province, while simultaneous missile attacks hit every key node in South Korea.

As for North Korea's Special Operations Forces (SOFs), South Korean estimates now place their numbers at as many as 180,000 men. North Korean SOFs are probably among the best- trained, best fed, and most motivated of all the forces in their military. They routinely undergo intense training that includes carrying 50 pounds of sand for 10 km in one hour, hiking in extreme cold weather, martial arts methodologies that include fighting with three to 15 opponents, and even using spoons and forks as weapons. Troops also engage in intense marksmanship training and even daily knife-throwing training. They can attack quickly, reaching key nodes in South Korea by aircraft, through tunnels in the DMZ, or even by maritime vessel.

The combined use of North Korea's asymmetric forces would almost certainly incite panic during any attack on the South. In the confusion, it is possible that enough cracks might open in South Korea's and the United States' defenses to allow Northern maneuver forces (infantry, armor, and mechanized forces) to move forward and take ground. (It is no coincidence that, over the past 15 years, North Korea has moved many of its conventional forces to forward positions -- often near invasion corridors along the border.) Put all this together, and an attack would inflict casualties to the tune of hundreds of thousands -- the majority of them civilian and many in Seoul.

Despite the primitive state of many of North Korea's systems compared with those of the United States and South Korea, Pyongyang's ability to make creative use of its limited resources is indeed alarming. The world would do well to look beyond just the nukes.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/c...?story_id=4972

[TheMercenary]

This is just another NK form of Kabuki Theater.

[classicman]

They are not to be taken lightly, thats for sure. Like I said in a previous post. We should be preparing to deal with a nuclear NK.

[Queen of the Ryche]

Found this while toodling around the old IOTD threads:

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=2583

[classicman]

Bumper pool...

Naro rocket blows up in midair

Korea demands Russia provide rocket for 3rd launch

By Kim Tong-hyung
Staff reporter

GOHEUNG, South Jeolla Province ― The second flight of the Korea Space Launch Vehicle I (KSLV-I) ended in failure with an explosion Thursday. The rocket, carrying a satellite aimed at observing the atmosphere and oceans, blasted off from the Naro Space Center here at 5:01 p.m., but exploded about two minutes later.

The spectacular letdown adds to the fears that the country's Herculean investment of money and effort into its first home-launched rocket may never produce the desired returns.

The Naro spaceport lost contact with the rocket 137 seconds after liftoff, when it was believed to be at an altitude of around 70 kilometers, which appears to be the moment when it exploded, according to the Korea Aerospace Research Institute (KARI), the country's space agency.

Sources close to the launch project told The Korea Times that first indications suggest a failure of the rocket's main, RD-151 rocket engine, developed by Russia's NPO Energomash, as its performance was seen to be reduced considerably as the vehicle began to veer off course. The rocket's payload, the Science and Technology Satellite No. 2 (STSAT-2), was also destroyed.

A number experts of also suggested that the country was fortunate to avoid a disaster as ground control was unable to command the wayward rocket to self-destruct with communications being out, which may have led to shuddering consequences had debris crashed onto land.

The doomed KSLV-I launch was the first launch since one in August last year, when the rocket achieved its desired speed and height, but failed to deliver its payload satellite into orbit.

``The Naro (KSLV-1) flew normally until 137.19 seconds after liftoff, when the communications with the ground tracking facilities were severed. The footage from the camera installed on the upper part of the rocket suddenly brightened at that moment, which suggests that the rocket's first stage exploded during flight,'' said Ahn Byung-man, South Korea's minister of education, science and technology, before bustling out of the spaceport's briefing room refusing to respond to questions from hounding media members.

Link
Perhaps its something in the water over there or maybe their arms don't flap fast enough. Damn - these guys keep blowing their shit up.

[Pie]

2007 article on Space Launch Vehicle Reliability -- very interesting! Did not know the USSR had been so far ahead of the USA. They've launched more vehicles than all the rest of us combined.

[classicman]

Bumpity boop ....

North Korea's rocket fell apart faster then the cowboys playoff hopes last December.

North Korea's long-range rocket failed early Friday, U.S. officials said, calling it a blow for the reclusive state's propaganda efforts.

The rocket broke up about 90 seconds after taking off, an official told NBC News.

The rocket was launched from Tongchang-ri, on North Korea's west coast and flew about 75 miles, Japanese broadcaster NHK said.

The South Korean army said rocket debris crashed off Kunsan, home to a U.S. air base on South Korea's west coast.

NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, said the rocket's first stage fell into the sea and two other stages failed.

Link

[Ibby]

Their next rocket should be disc-shaped. It might go a little further than the rest.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by Ibram

Their next rocket should be disc-shaped. It might go a little further than the rest.

Attachment 38291

Sh-yeah, right.

It ain't like it's rocket scie---wait, it is rocket science.

[ZenGum]

LOLs.

It'll be announced in NK as a glorious success. Or else they'll swear the evil capitalist pigs shot it down as an act of aggression.

[Ibby]

No, really. If they'd been investing in buoys or submarines or something, they'd have mastered it by now, with all the rockets they've dropped in the water. whats the quickest way to send expensive scientific equipment to the bottom of the east sea? their ballistic program!

[ZenGum]

North Korea reminds me a little of the belligerent drunk, not quite able to stand, shouting threats at anyone within range, waving some kind of minor weapon. You don't think they actually could attack someone, at least not successfully; and they're probably not stupid enough to try it ... but you're not absolutely sure they won't do something really stupid, and you don't want to take your eye off them, just in case.

The status quo on the Korean peninsula should be preserved as a Cold War Theme Park, just to remind us most of the world was once this crazy.

[Griff]

They actually told their people the truth this time. Of course they can always amend it later. Thinking on it, if it was a good rocket we would have smoked it anyway.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

They actually told their people the truth this time.

Which suggests a political change. But a change which way?

For example, is new leaderships challenging the extremists to put up a rocket that 'could not fail'? To gain political control over extremists?

Or is the new leadership so naive as to believe what their extremists were claiming? That they could make intercontinental missiles and explode nuclear bombs if not impeded by moderates.

Or is the new leadership so unstable as to need these accomplishments.

Were they being public so as to defuse accusations that it was a military bomb delivery system? Could be.

We can only say something has changed. But we don't know who is gaining power, who is threaten (politically endangered), or who is that naive. All three may apply to the different power centers in N Korea. But more important, which option includes the new Kim?

To define a monolithic N Korea as evil would be foolish and Limbaugh simplistic. We know this ‘publically admitted’ rocket failure and a secret tunnel for a nuclear attempt define changes. We just don’t know what that change is or what it means.

Those easily manipulated by myths (ie Saddam's WMD, cigarettes to increase health) will listen to the ill informed preaching wild speculation. Others who only know after learning facts understand why these latest N Korean actions occurred.

Curious is something new: they publically admitted to a three stage rocket. And then publically admitted to its failure. Something changed.