area flooding

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

Please note the mustard yellow North of Binghamton. Chenango Point in Binghamton is where the Chenango joins the Susquehanna. Parts of Binghamton are low lying and never should have been built on but this storm was not "usual" if you look at the rainfall in the drainage area that is collected and goes through Bing.

But look at all the other areas that drain through Binghamton that were not yellow. The Johnstown PA (1985?) flood was unique because almost the entire upriver drainage area got 10+ inches of rain within only hours; and all had to drain through Johnstown. Had that been same for Binghamtown, well, then flooding should be expected. This was not a Big One. This on two rivers where most of the drainage area did not suffer 'yellow' rainfall - and still the river basin in Binghamton was too narrow.

To be a significant flood, most of both rivers above Binghamton should have been yellow rainfall. Notice that Wilke Barre and Sunbury both on the same river had less serious (near zero) problems. Wilkes Barre had mostly dark green rainfall upstream AND the flooding from Binghamton. Wilkes Barre took precautions that were mostly unnecessary.

Of course maybe the press suddenly realized after Binghamton that the flooding was really not that serious - was being overhyped. But what we have is a benchmark. Any home flooded by this lesser event should be 'corrected'. That usually means moved. Homes are the one structure that must survive catastrophic events. Businesses, rec fields, parking garages, etc are all sacrificial.

Homes should never be built where flooding will occur. Homes are the one structure we all need intact especially after such events.

[Griff]

The ground in upstate NY was already saturated before the week's rains began. I wasn't sure why you didn't want this flood to be serious, but being that it was the most serious flood in Binghamton since 1935, I suppose it must be your political agenda. You criticize the press for hyping an existing flood while pimping your future scenario in hopes of increasing Federal intervention related to climate. Please remember when you win your interventions, it will be folks with other agendas implementing them.

note: I acknowlege that Federal taxpayers spent huge sums of money to ugrade WBs flood walls recently and they did their job.

[MsSparkie]

Scroll down the page....lots of steamy weather, tornados too....

http://wwwa.accuweather.com/adcbin/p...unity_blog.asp

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by MsSparkie

...lots of steamy weather, tornados too....

O. M. G. it is soooo freakin' hot and humid here in the Miami Valley that you can't even go outside unless you are right next to the pool. It's misreable! This weather forces a person indoors. It's just too hot.

Originally Posted by Brianna

O. M. G. it is soooo freakin' hot and humid here in the Miami Valley that you can't even go outside unless you are right next to the pool. It's misreable! This weather forces a person indoors. It's just too hot.

You ain't lyin', here inland it is nasty with no sea breeze.

[Griff]

This mornings paper has the so-called flood plains mapped. People are asking the right questions, a new map is needed. An example is Lourdes Hospital which was supposed to be on the high end of the 500 year flood plain and was inundated. Lots of homes on morgages were above the known flood plain and were not required to have flood insurance. Bottom line, everyone was working with bad information.

[richlevy]

All I can say for sure is that the elevation listed on Google for my house is between 180 and 190 feet above sea level. The bottom of my street is about 160 feet. There is almost 0 percent chance of any amount of standing water flooding my house.

There is, however, an issue with runoff and drainage. When they built my development, they were pretty careful with landscaping design. Unfortunately, they began building above me and I got a lesson in design when they didn't put up a silt fence before they started and a severe rain took off the few inches of the already thin topsoil off of the hill in my backyard.

The runoff is designed to run away from my house and in the alley between my house and my neighbors to the street. The winter before last, due to a design flaw, it pooled near my back steps and caused problems. The builder had to excavate and redesign the terrain to build up the embankment between the alley and my house.

That being said, everything is good now and I sit well above sea level, away or above any creeks which can flood, tucked in a slight valley to discourage tornadoes and hurricanes, and in one of the more geographically dead states on the east coast.

Except for the fact that I am not too far from chemical plants, I have a pretty safe environment. The biggest disaster I have to worry about is my homeowners association.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

I wasn't sure why you didn't want this flood to be serious, but being that it was the most serious flood in Binghamton since 1935, I suppose it must be your political agenda.

Worse flood than 1972 Agnes? So what changed? Was it really a big flood? Was it created by man (for example in NY that may not install flood control on all new construction)? Or was it really nothing more than the local gossip hyping a story? If the flood in Binghamton was so bad, then why was it a non-event just downriver in Wilkes Barre - that does flood planning since 1972?

I see nothing that justifies all this hype. So I took an all day bike ride up towards Reading - downriver of that big orange spot. Nothing. No serious flooding. Just the usual flood plain soil replenishment and dirt where roads were too low.

If Binghamton had serious flooding, then Binghamton has serious planning and code enforcement problems in and upriver of Binghamton. Sounds like a manmade problem to me.

To repeat a primary point: where problems existed, then the town / region must fix their problems. This was not a Big One. And what I 'want' is not even stated or implied. It was only a serious flood where man has failed to act responsible - and will be worse later if what 'was only a warning' is not heeded. It was not a major news story as we all saw in national news. But then things close to NYC too often get more hype.

[Griff]

Every flooded home is by definition a man-made problem. The heaviest rains from Agnes fell mostly South of Binghamton hence the new flood wall construction in WB. I can't find information on river levels to compare. I'm really thrown by the relatively modest amount of measured rain compared to the change in river level, but I think our ground water levels are up since the rain has eased but the river is still quite high.

We do have a strip mall problem East (down stream)of Bing along the river which must have eaten up wetland. Binghamton itself was a land granted swamp originally. I wonder if certain areas are sinking? Broome County NY (Bing), has heavy code enforcement whereas Chenango County NY, has little. What I don't get is new construction in flood prone areas. When I was surveying we did flood elevations for folks looking to qualify for morgages. No elevation = no morgage. However, since they have built highways and malls along the river since the flood of '35 we may have our answer as to how this became a so-called century event, they've altered the flood plain. If this is the case it really isn't Binghamton's fault, since there is rarely new construction in Binghamton proper (shrinking population). We need to look at upstream construction like Conklin.

Any idea where we can find historical river level data on-line?

[xoxoxoBruce]

The Delaware River went down and now the hard part. Harmony, NJ started washing down the buildings with fire hoses today. The water was up to the red arrow in the second picture.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Deposit, NY on the 28th.

[lookout123]

the good news is that i am personally responsible for interviewing any folks wanting to move to flood free phoenix due to recent events. all cellarites will receive priority clearance.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

Any idea where we can find historical river level data on-line?

Found flood stage charts for upriver. The triangles are what are average water flows. After what appears to be a large 1st of June rain, the rivers were just slightly above average - suggesting no ground water saturation at least one week before. Another source (that I cannot find) reports average cubic feet per second for Jun to be about 1300 for Jun which puts water before the rains at average.

Again, the point is that this flooding should not have been as bad as the news wanted it to be. And where flooding was a problem, those areas better get cracking at opening up the flood plain - moving people like Clinton did for Grafton IL.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by tw

Found flood stage charts for upriver. The triangles are what are average water flows. After what appears to be a large 1st of June rain, the rivers were just slightly above average - suggesting no ground water saturation at least one week before. Another source (that I cannot find) reports average cubic feet per second for Jun to be about 1300 for Jun which puts water before the rains at average.

Again, the point is that this flooding should not have been as bad as the news wanted it to be. And where flooding was a problem, those areas better get cracking at opening up the flood plain - moving people like Clinton did for Grafton IL.

Bruce sent me a bunch of these charts, very interesting stuff. What I was thinking of though would be water levels from 1935 and 1972 but I'm guessing the record is fragmented.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Water resources

New York State....hover over the dots (all colors) to find out where it is.

For the Chenango River at Greene, this station has only stream height (water level) but check the "Available data for this site" menu for historical data and other information.

For the Susquehanna River at Conklin, there is stream height and discharge as well as "Available Data" menu.

Don't forget the Susquehanna starts in NY state, swings through northeast PA, back into NY, then south the full height of PA into MD. So, you'll have to check the PA map also to see where the bulk of the water entered the Susquehanna before in got to Binghamton.
The Chenango dumps into the Susquehanna in Binghamton so the NY map would show some of the large feeder streams of the Chenango.

Have fun.