What it means to be an American

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I sure as hell don't, when the government can illegally listen to my phone calls...

See, that's what I mean.

Which of your phone calls are likely illegally listened to? Do you regularly receive calls from suspected overseas terrorists? Domestic calls are not "listened to".

I remeber when I read that when monitoring an international call made by a non-US national being surveillied that NSA had to immediately cease if they figured out the other party was a US national. Seemed kinda extreme. These days, with how difficult it is to identify who the called party is, it's even more so.

And you do remeber the Clipper Chip, right? :-)

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

...and illegally read my emails...

I hate to break it to you, but plaintext email has never been anything close to secure.

If that worries you, you should encrypt it.; many people do.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Now obviously amateur radio stations can be used to pass sensitive information to terrorists and should be confiscated. That's not much of a stretch. Wouldn't affect me in the least but I think you'd change your tune, damn quick.

Which is exactly why radio amateurs radio operators have *always* been forbidden encrypt any of their messages...this is not new. They are also subject to stringent controls as to which country's nationals can pass messages though amateur radio.

FCC doesn't have to seize my radios to shut me down, all they need to do is lift my licence.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Which of your phone calls are likely illegally listened to?

How is "likely" relevant?

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

How is "likely" relevant?

Because he's not going to know if one is *actually* listened to. Unless he gets busted because of something he says, of course.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

See, that's what I mean.

Which of your phone calls are likely illegally listened to? Do you regularly receive calls from suspected overseas terrorists? Domestic calls are not "listened to".

Bullshit

I remeber when I read that when monitoring an international call made by a non-US national being surveillied that NSA had to immediately cease if they figured out the other party was a US national. Seemed kinda extreme. These days, with how difficult it is to identify who the called party is, it's even more so.

Bullshit

And you do remeber the Clipper Chip, right? :-)

No

I hate to break it to you, but plain text email has never been anything close to secure.

If that worries you, you should encrypt it.; many people do.

That only keeps the general public at bay and attracts the government decoders.

Which is exactly why radio amateurs radio operators have *always* been forbidden encrypt any of their messages...this is not new. They are also subject to stringent controls as to which country's nationals can pass messages though amateur radio.

There are many ways to hide messages in plain text or language.

FCC doesn't have to seize my radios to shut me down, all they need to do is lift my licence.

Yeah sure, and if they lift my carry permit I can't take a gun to somebodies house and shoot them. C'mon, get real here.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No

Well, look it up. Under "Clinton administration", if that helps.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That only keeps the general public at bay and attracts the government decoders.

Which is why good old Phil Zimmerman advocated everybody doing it all the time.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

There are many ways to hide messages in plain text or language.

And even more in digital data. HF radio used to have significance in international intelligence; it doesn't anymore. For one thing, it requires somebody who knows what they're doing on both ends to use it.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Yeah sure, and if they lift my carry permit I can't take a gun to somebodies house and shoot them. C'mon, get real here.

Get real indeed. Do you advocate gun confiscation too?

I'm more worried about liberals trying to take stuff away from me ("..as representatives of The Common Good", as Hilary said); they spend all their time talking about it. Take a look at that Google sketch-up thread...the very first words out of tw's mouth when he found out I was a ham was about whether my neighbors would prevent me from erecting antennas.

Collectivists...*sigh*

I don't think Bush wants my radios. He seems to understand they're more valuable to him (and everybody else) in my hands.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

HF radio used to have significance in international intelligence; it doesn't anymore. For one thing, it requires somebody who knows what they're doing on both ends to use it.

Uh...wha? You need to tune around above/below 12 and 30 meters sometime! 17 836 20 191 65...

73s.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Uh...wha? You need to tune around above/below 12 and 30 meters sometime! 17 836 20 191 65...

73s.

Yes, there still are numbers stations. Giant Talk is still in operation too.
But it's not anywhere near the big deal it used to be; internet steganography rules...and any dimwit with a laptop can do it.

The theory that numbers stations are mostly drug runners now seems plausible to me...and confiscating legally owned HF rigs won't affect that any more than confiscating legally owned weapons will stop gangbangers.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

confiscating legally owned HF rigs won't affect that any more than confiscating legally owned weapons will stop gangbangers.

Uh, okay. I just mentioned numbers stations because I find them interesting. I'm not suggesting we take your rig away. Shee.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Uh, okay. I just mentioned numbers stations because I find them interesting. I'm not suggesting we take your rig away. Shee.

Didn't say you did. Bruce did; that was the original context. Or rather he was FUDding that Bush would...

Numbers stations are interesting to the extent that they still exist and you have to wonder why. You also have to wonder if they are actually carrying any traffic, or if they're just in operation to foil traffic analysis in case they're needed someday. .

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Uh...wha? You need to tune around above/below 12 and 30 meters sometime! 17 836 20 191 65...

73s.

Did somebody say numbers stations? Bonus link.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by BigV

Did somebody say numbers stations? Bonus link.

I used to fall asleep in front of an old Hallicrafters HF rig, tuned to some distant voice spewing seemingly random numbers. I was intrigued by them, listening for any hint as to what they might be or what purpose they served. I still hear them, today, and they haven't lost any of their mystique.

Note: falling asleep to numbers stations gives you very strange dreams.