Good and bad

[russotto]

OK, since no one's posted here, I'll give a suburban-eye perspective on the city's high and low points.

High points:
Most people I know in the area live there.

Plenty of places to skate.

Lots of restaurants

Relatively few pipe bombs

Oddly dressed people on South Street MUCH more interesting than oddly dressed people at King of Prussia Mall.

I'm told there's cultural stuff, but being a suburbanite, I figure T-Rex at the I-Max is pretty much the height of culture.


Low points:

Parking. To a suburbanite (those of you in Media don't count), meters and parallel parking invite feelings of disgust. Philly makes it worse with apparently random time restrictions which vary block to block, and by occasionally ticketing legally parked cars (Grrr...) We won't even discuss Manayunk parking...

Homeless people, panhandlers, etc.

Snow removal, or the general lack thereof outside Center City itself.

That wonderful subway odor

Wage Tax

[elSicomoro]

In my 25 years on this planet, I've lived in St. Louis and Washington, DC, & have spent large amounts of time in Chicago and Baltimore. I moved here to Philadelphia about 4 months ago. So far, it has been a great experience.

There are certainly some things that I don't like--Mayor Street allowing firefighters with hepatitis C to suffer, expensive parking in Center City, the lack of a more extensive subway, and (as just about EVERYONE agrees) the wage tax (particularly if you live outside the city and work in the city).

But the pluses far outweigh the minuses--much lower cost of living (compared to most large cities; and certainly compared to DC); history (obviously); a rebirth in Center City (and the city as a whole); world-class universities, great places to eat; the city is easy to get around (be it the el, the subway, or by bus); South Street; and lastly, the people here are rather cordial by city standards. Something that completely shocked me the first time I was up here.

The only place I've liked as much as I like Philly is Chicago. And while I love the midwest, I love being close to the ocean and the proximity of so many places so close to here. Not to mention, lake effect snow sucks...badly.

[Undertoad]

Originally posted by sycamore
... and lastly, the people here are rather cordial by city standards. Something that completely shocked me the first time I was up here.

Interesting! Would've figured that we'd have Boston beat by a mile, but DC and StL? What about that southern hospitality? Is it just a myth?

[russotto]

DC? It isn't known as the city of Northern charm and Southern efficiency for nothing.

(Can't remember who said that, might have been one of the Kennedy clan)

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Tony Shepps
Interesting! Would've figured that we'd have Boston beat by a mile, but DC and StL? What about that southern hospitality? Is it just a myth?

DC is an anomaly. Quite frankly, it is the most impolite city I know. I have NEVER met so many rude people in my life. Everyone seems a tad too jaded for my liking. It doesn't help that the number of native-born DC folk is rapidly dwindling. It also doesn't help that the city itself is a festering toilet. This is the capital of the free world for crying out loud...and yet it is infamously known for its drug trade and murder rate. Not to mention, the cost of living rivals New York City and San Francisco.

St. Louis is a cross between southern charm, midwestern conservatism, Catholic guilt, and liberal bastion. The people are generally warm and friendly, not to mention rabid sports fans. Unfortunately, St. Louis is still heavily segregated and one of the worst examples of White Flight in the nation. (I think St. Louis has lost 60% of its population over the last 50 years.) All in all, St. Louis is a nice city with an up-and-coming technology and service sector, and several fine universities. But the city is sorely lacking in suburban public transit and race relations. After 23 years, it was time to go. I don't think my parents quite get it yet, but they're getting there...

[Cerebus]

All my exes live in the District, and it's a fine place for them. Reasonable enough restaurants and tourist traps, but the weather reeks, the city's a mess, and the expense is near NYC. No thanks.

Having lived briefly in Oregon and now for 14 months in NoCal, I'm not coming back to Philly, potentially ever. It's better than DC, and I'd rather live there than NYC. Boston's kind of a push, and Chicago's just a landlocked Philly.

If I had to leave NoCal, I'd consider Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Austin or Denver. All pretty, all clean, and all more or less safe without being deadly dull. My days of calling the cops to deal with my smashed car window, not to mention the frequent 911 calls, are long gone. Besides, 10am football games rule.

DMt

[Violine]

quote:
Originally posted by Cerebus

I'm not coming back to Philly, potentially ever. It's better than DC, and I'd rather live there than NYC. Boston's kind of a push, and Chicago's just a landlocked Philly.
------------------------------------------
And I've just about had it with small town Kansas.... I can't wait to move back to Manhattan! But I'll probably be back here next year - it's kind of nice carrying college faculty id cards (for 2 different institutions, I might add).

And please forgive the lack of formatting in this post... This incarnation is too high tech!

- Ruth

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Violine

And I've just about had it with small town Kansas.... I can't wait to move back to Manhattan! But I'll probably be back here next year - it's kind of nice carrying college faculty id cards (for 2 different institutions, I might add).

I've been to Kansas once...and it was pretty damn boring. Not as bad as Ohio and Indiana, but right up there.

I moved two times to two different cities in the past year, so I don't see myself going anywhere again for awhile. (My current goal is to remain here 5 years.) The only places I see myself moving to anytime soon are Rhode Island (beautiful place) or Chicago--and these would only happen if my job presented the opportunities. I'd also be willing to move to Ocean City, Maryland...I could only wish. ;-)

[oprativ]

Hey all,

I'm a newbie to the cellar, and it seems like a great place!

I went to Temple University in the nineties as a mature student, and I'm still living in the same apartment. The only difference between then and now is that I now have all three bedrooms to myself!

The landlord used to live here and he's a carpenter. He re-did all the woodwork in this old house... so although the outer door looks like a normal N. Phila. rowhouse, the interior is a palace! Yeah, it's the hi-tech Bat Cave!

Y'know, living in N. Phila. for nine years has been rather interesting. Despite the blight, guns, beggars, drugs, crime, useless/dangerous warehouse educational meat-processing system, and overall climate (Zeitgeist?) of abject hopelessness, it has it's moments. It's almost like being in a foreign country...

I see children out on the sidewalks skipping rope in the summertime at 1AM. Some of them have never eaten at a place *other* than McDonalds. Some folks can't read the number/sign on the SEPTA bus that goes into center city, they just know *that's* the bus they have to take and it stops *here*... and if that bus route is re-directed for any reason, they're stuck, because that's the only way they know how to get home.

In the summertime, someone will go outside and fire their gun into the air, maybe four or five rounds. Someone *else* a few blocks away will hear that, and fire *their* gun into the air. A *third* will hear *that*, and so on, like birds marking territory with song. And occasionally, one will hear the fully automatic weapon...

I find that N.Phila.'s greatest natural resource (other than dirt) is heubris... some of these young boys have nothing to live for, and thus are capable of feats or demonstrations involving tremendous danger.

And it has moments of great beauty - last summer I spotted an older couple sitting on their steps - they were obviously still very much in love, and were very much at peace. gawd, i wish that i had a camera for that one.

I'd love to go through here with a camera and photograph My North Phila. Mebbe Soon. Then mebbe My Frankford Avenue and the corpses that walk along there.

Daktari

[adamzion]

Originally posted by russotto
DC? It isn't known as the city of Northern charm and Southern efficiency for nothing.

(Can't remember who said that, might have been one of the Kennedy clan)

It was JFK.

[adamzion]

It doesn't help that the number of native-born DC folk is rapidly dwindling.

I went to school in DC (George Washington University, Class of '92), and found that there are *very* few native-born DC residents. It seems to be a rather transient city, which would seem to come with the very nature of the government business.

It also doesn't help that the city itself is a festering toilet. This is the capital of the free world for crying out loud...and yet it is infamously known for its drug trade and murder rate.

I was there when Mayor Marion Barry- Mayer Barely, to you- was arrested after being caught, on videotape, smoking crack. Peoples' reaction wasn't "holy shit, the Mayor's smoking crack!" Their reaction was "what the hell took them so long to catch him."

I always suspected that Barely made sure that DC had a flourishing drug trade in its NE and SE segments to guarantee him a low price.

Not to mention, the cost of living rivals New York City and San Francisco.

And the wages don't keep up with the cost of living.

Not by a long shot,
Z

[Cerebus]

Having done time in a land with a lot of them (So. OR and NoCal), as well as one where neighbors stay forever (Fishtown in Philly)... well, give me the transients. Please.

The problem with DC is that the city has no tax base. If you work there and don't live in the city limits, the city receives no revenue from your work. On the other hand, you do get to use their services.

A simple case of capital flight, and until it's addressed, the city is best avoided. Besides, Shrub lives there now, so there's the moral objections to deal with as well.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Cerebus
The problem with DC is that the city has no tax base. If you work there and don't live in the city limits, the city receives no revenue from your work. On the other hand, you do get to use their services.

A simple case of capital flight, and until it's addressed, the city is best avoided. Besides, Shrub lives there now, so there's the moral objections to deal with as well.

W has already said that DC will not receive any further enhancements to their status (such as, getting a voting representative to Congress, seeing as DC residents DO pay federal taxes, unlike Puerto Rico). A constitutional congress was held for the "State of New Columbia" in 1983, I believe. Congress let it die.

DC's best bet would be to become part of the state of Maryland...again. Unfortunately, it would cost several thousand jobs...not to mention, the Mayor of the District would lose his unique status (as a mayor, a county executive, and a governor).

DC DID try to pass a law last year to collect a percentage of all DC workers' paychecks...Congress shot that down too.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by adamzion
I went to school in DC (George Washington University, Class of '92), and found that there are *very* few native-born DC residents. It seems to be a rather transient city, which would seem to come with the very nature of the government business.

I'm not sure what the exact numbers are. DC currently has about 560,000 people...I'd say 50-60% of the city is native-born.

I was there when Mayor Marion Barry- Mayer Barely, to you- was arrested after being caught, on videotape, smoking crack. Peoples' reaction wasn't "holy shit, the Mayor's smoking crack!" Their reaction was "what the hell took them so long to catch him."

Can you believe that he was thinking about running AGAIN for mayor? He decided against it. Idiot. Tony Williams is doing a great job given the circumstances.

[BrianR]

I'm sorry to hurt feelings here but it won't happen. Ever!

It's right in the Constitution. The capitol of the country may not reside within the borders of a state. That's why it's in a District; the only one in the nation. The swamp thing was pure coincidence, I'm sure.

If the people really want to have a vote in Congress, MOVE!

Brian
"Still riled from a previous discussion re Vieques"