Merry F'in Christmas - I want a divorce. - Page 16

Brett's Honey · 02-12-2006, 12:32 AM

[quote=lookout123]hey all you legal experts - i need some info pretty quickly... does it matter who serves who with divorce papers? /QUOTE]

No legal advice here, but I do have a little "been there" advice. My husband would have anyway...many times he has said he wishes he would have filed first. Keeping the home and full custody of the girls are the main reasons he has for that..and getting at least some of his stuff!
He held back for the exact same reasons you are, he wasn't giving up,and didn't want a divorce, but in hindsight, he wished he'd filed first. He still kicks himself for not filing first, even though he got the girls, (after a terrible 1 1/2 year custody battle).
If there's any doubt at all, I'd say - go file first.

lookout123 · 02-12-2006, 09:54 AM

beestie - i have spoken with an attorney (about 3 weeks ago) and will meet with him on monday morning. the question is mainly about who serves who and if it matters.

wolf · 02-12-2006, 02:10 PM

Probably it does at some level, even if it's a psychological edge. A lot will depend on whether you are in a no-fault divorce state, or if you need provable grounds (adultery, alienation of affections, shit like that).

And, if you are in a provable grounds state, beware of what shit your wife will fling. Filing first might head some of that off at the pass.

You fix things up, you can always drop the suit.

lookout123 · 02-12-2006, 02:30 PM

it is a no fault state. the term is that the marriage is "irretrievably broken". no further detail needed.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-12-2006, 03:51 PM

Not your problem, but PA has a little wrinkle. Divorce procedure is determined by "local custom", every county is different. The lawyers and judges in each county get together and decide how divorces will be handled. They just make it up! No uniformity and damn little law....they just make it the fuck up.

Tonchi · 02-12-2006, 04:25 PM

Well, I divorced somebody in Phoenix. It hardly makes me an expert, but I have worked for a lot of lawyers and I believe that it does not matter who serves who first as far as any legal advantage in a no-fault state with community property. All it accomplishes is to establish the order in which the case is described. Instead of Mary Jones is granted a divorce from John Jones, it will read John Jones is granted a divorce from Mary Jones. Now is not the time to worry over niceties. There is no "divorce etiquette" that you should be thinking about when dealing with a person as unstable as your Mrs. Have your lawyer prepare the papers, then inform her that you will be filing them in "x" number of days so if she wants to do it she has until then or it is your show.

lookout123 · 02-12-2006, 07:50 PM

thanks for the input. this isn't about niceties. i won't go in to why i do not want to serve her, but it is extremely important to me. i will be speaking with my attorney again in the morning, but unless i hear that i will be bent over by letting her serve me with her ridiculous requests, then i will continue to wait.

the on again, off again psych eval is back on again. she has an appointment for friday. she grows louder each day with her protests and claims that there is absolutely nothing wrong with her. i don't understand how she can honestly believe that her attitudes and behaviors are consistant with those of the past,but...

BigV · 02-12-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

thanks for the input. this isn't about niceties. i won't go in to why i do not want to serve her, but it is extremely important to me. i will be speaking with my attorney again in the morning, but unless i hear that i will be bent over by letting her serve me with her ridiculous requests, then i will continue to wait.

I think I understand. I have felt the same way. Divorce or otherwise you will have to live with yourself forever. For something that is extremely important to you, you should trust your instinct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

the on again, off again psych eval is back on again. she has an appointment for friday. she grows louder each day with her protests and claims that there is absolutely nothing wrong with her. i don't understand how she can honestly believe that her attitudes and behaviors are consistant with those of the past,but...

Don't make the mistake of conflating her statements about her actions and behavior with her honest belief. She may well know it's off and deny it (loudly and repeatedly). Or just as likely, she may be in honest denial and honestly believe it. Denial is a potent force in human behavior and belief.

lookout123 · 02-12-2006, 11:21 PM

whether she knows it or not - there is something very real wrong with her. this isn't just a "i don't love my husband anymore" situation. yes i know those happen. yes i am aware that even if she gets help for whatever this is that she won't necessarily ever love me again. i may be dumb, but i'm not stupid.

my hope and desire is to rebuild our lives and build a strong and lasting marriage. but even more than that i need her to be healthy because she may stop being my wife, but she will always be my son's mother. the sun rises and sets with her smile and a kind word. he deserves a better upbringing than she received. so if i put a lot of work and effort into helping (dragging) her into health and still lose my wife... well, my son's future is more important than my present anyway.

bluecuracao · 02-12-2006, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

my son's future is more important than my present anyway.

In my humble, unknowing opinion, I think this is the most important thing to focus on.

I, and I'm sure other lurkers, continue to wish you the best and the greatest strength possible, lookout.

yesman065 · 02-13-2006, 07:01 AM

Lookout! Lookout, for weeks my ex-wife kept saying lets not do this, lets stay together, and so on then 1 day out of the blue I get served for support, marital asset dissolution, custody and divorce - all four at once!
It can be important to the courts who actually files, so go and do whatever is necessary and best for your boy and do it quickly if not immediately. My ex is a depressed bi-polar, really messed up person, so I kinda understand where you're coming from - Keep focused on your son. It sucks, but it will get better with time. Good luck with all of this!

lookout123 · 02-13-2006, 07:58 PM

met with the attorney today. he says that there is no legal advantage or disadvantage to being the plaintiff vs respondent in arizona. it only signifies whose name is first on the paperwork. although she is claiming significantly less than i do, the documentation doesn't support that. and in the end, i will fight for primary custody and i don't care if i ever get a penny of child support. she would have to significantly alter/end her career to provide the day to day care for our son that i can do. because of the relatively short duration of our marriage alimony is a non-issue.

i have my reasons to wait. as much as i hate being reactive, i have my reasons.

limey · 02-14-2006, 06:13 PM

Good luck, lookout.

yesman065 · 02-15-2006, 03:36 PM

Just passin along info tryin to help, I'm in PA so I guess its different here. How long have you been married? Sorry if that was in an earlier post and I missed it. My wife who was too st*p*id to be able to last more than two weeks at any job finally decided to just stay home. I've been working like a dog to provide for the family and then she claims that I abandoned "them" because I'm working all the time?!?!?!?!?!?

FallenFairy · 02-16-2006, 06:19 AM

Yesman- abandonment in a marriage in PA constitutes the following:
For all practical purposes, desertion and abandonment are one and the same. .There are two elements that have to be present in order to constitute desertion: the willful desire or the intent to desert and the cutting off of the marital relationship. In Pennsylvania, the abandonment has:
continued for 12 uninterrupted months;
must be deliberate and final;
beyond any reasonable expectation of reconciliation.
There are two types of desertion-actual desertion and constructive desertion.
Actual is when your spouse packs bags, books, and toothpaste, walks out the door, moves into another abode, and stays there, he or she is guilty of actual desertion. The spouse voluntarily leaves and has no plans to return except perhaps to pick up a forgotten belonging.
ConstructiveIf your spouse's behavior is so cruel that you find yourself dialing suicide prevention, you can leave and charge your spouse with constructive desertion. Constructive desertion is basically defined as one person leaving the relationship-not necessarily the home. nonperformance of other marital duties as to practically destroy the home life. The denial of sex alone does not constitute desertion. The spouse also has to stop carrying out the mutual responsibilities of the marital relationship. engagind in conduct that endangers a spouse's life, safety, health, and even self-respect (although an isolated assault or two will not necessarily constitute cruelty unless the act was particularly severe and atrocious).

More info obtained concerning PA Law @ http://www.divorcelawinfo.com

I hope this helps....unfortunately I do have some experience on this topic... if you need more info you can PM me.

02-12-2006, 02:10 PM	#228
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Probably it does at some level, even if it's a psychological edge. A lot will depend on whether you are in a no-fault divorce state, or if you need provable grounds (adultery, alienation of affections, shit like that). And, if you are in a provable grounds state, beware of what shit your wife will fling. Filing first might head some of that off at the pass. You fix things up, you can always drop the suit. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

02-12-2006, 03:51 PM	#230
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Not your problem, but PA has a little wrinkle. Divorce procedure is determined by "local custom", every county is different. The lawyers and judges in each county get together and decide how divorces will be handled. They just make it up! No uniformity and damn little law....they just make it the fuck up. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-12-2006, 04:25 PM	#231
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	Well, I divorced somebody in Phoenix. It hardly makes me an expert, but I have worked for a lot of lawyers and I believe that it does not matter who serves who first as far as any legal advantage in a no-fault state with community property. All it accomplishes is to establish the order in which the case is described. Instead of Mary Jones is granted a divorce from John Jones, it will read John Jones is granted a divorce from Mary Jones. Now is not the time to worry over niceties. There is no "divorce etiquette" that you should be thinking about when dealing with a person as unstable as your Mrs. Have your lawyer prepare the papers, then inform her that you will be filing them in "x" number of days so if she wants to do it she has until then or it is your show. __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true. Last edited by Tonchi; 02-12-2006 at 04:28 PM.

02-14-2006, 06:13 PM	#238
limey Encroaching on your decrees Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: An island within the south-west coast of Scotland Posts: 7,016	Good luck, lookout. __________________ Living it up on the edge ... of civilisation, within the southwest coast of

02-16-2006, 06:19 AM	#240
FallenFairy nope Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 322	Yesman- abandonment in a marriage in PA constitutes the following: For all practical purposes, desertion and abandonment are one and the same. .There are two elements that have to be present in order to constitute desertion: the willful desire or the intent to desert and the cutting off of the marital relationship. In Pennsylvania, the abandonment has: continued for 12 uninterrupted months; must be deliberate and final; beyond any reasonable expectation of reconciliation. There are two types of desertion-actual desertion and constructive desertion. Actual is when your spouse packs bags, books, and toothpaste, walks out the door, moves into another abode, and stays there, he or she is guilty of actual desertion. The spouse voluntarily leaves and has no plans to return except perhaps to pick up a forgotten belonging. ConstructiveIf your spouse's behavior is so cruel that you find yourself dialing suicide prevention, you can leave and charge your spouse with constructive desertion. Constructive desertion is basically defined as one person leaving the relationship-not necessarily the home. nonperformance of other marital duties as to practically destroy the home life. The denial of sex alone does not constitute desertion. The spouse also has to stop carrying out the mutual responsibilities of the marital relationship. engagind in conduct that endangers a spouse's life, safety, health, and even self-respect (although an isolated assault or two will not necessarily constitute cruelty unless the act was particularly severe and atrocious). More info obtained concerning PA Law @ http://www.divorcelawinfo.com I hope this helps....unfortunately I do have some experience on this topic... if you need more info you can PM me. __________________ ~going, going... gone now Last edited by FallenFairy; 02-16-2006 at 07:50 AM. Reason: canot type! Thanks to L for noticing the mistake in the url.

02-12-2006, 12:32 AM	#226
Brett's Honey whatever Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 308	[quote=lookout123]hey all you legal experts - i need some info pretty quickly... does it matter who serves who with divorce papers? /QUOTE] No legal advice here, but I do have a little "been there" advice. My husband would have anyway...many times he has said he wishes he would have filed first. Keeping the home and full custody of the girls are the main reasons he has for that..and getting at least some of his stuff! He held back for the exact same reasons you are, he wasn't giving up,and didn't want a divorce, but in hindsight, he wished he'd filed first. He still kicks himself for not filing first, even though he got the girls, (after a terrible 1 1/2 year custody battle). If there's any doubt at all, I'd say - go file first.

02-12-2006, 09:54 AM	#227
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	beestie - i have spoken with an attorney (about 3 weeks ago) and will meet with him on monday morning. the question is mainly about who serves who and if it matters.

02-12-2006, 02:30 PM	#229
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	it is a no fault state. the term is that the marriage is "irretrievably broken". no further detail needed.

02-12-2006, 07:50 PM	#232
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	thanks for the input. this isn't about niceties. i won't go in to why i do not want to serve her, but it is extremely important to me. i will be speaking with my attorney again in the morning, but unless i hear that i will be bent over by letting her serve me with her ridiculous requests, then i will continue to wait. the on again, off again psych eval is back on again. she has an appointment for friday. she grows louder each day with her protests and claims that there is absolutely nothing wrong with her. i don't understand how she can honestly believe that her attitudes and behaviors are consistant with those of the past,but...

02-12-2006, 11:21 PM	#234
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	whether she knows it or not - there is something very real wrong with her. this isn't just a "i don't love my husband anymore" situation. yes i know those happen. yes i am aware that even if she gets help for whatever this is that she won't necessarily ever love me again. i may be dumb, but i'm not stupid. my hope and desire is to rebuild our lives and build a strong and lasting marriage. but even more than that i need her to be healthy because she may stop being my wife, but she will always be my son's mother. the sun rises and sets with her smile and a kind word. he deserves a better upbringing than she received. so if i put a lot of work and effort into helping (dragging) her into health and still lose my wife... well, my son's future is more important than my present anyway.

02-13-2006, 07:01 AM	#236
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Lookout! Lookout, for weeks my ex-wife kept saying lets not do this, lets stay together, and so on then 1 day out of the blue I get served for support, marital asset dissolution, custody and divorce - all four at once! It can be important to the courts who actually files, so go and do whatever is necessary and best for your boy and do it quickly if not immediately. My ex is a depressed bi-polar, really messed up person, so I kinda understand where you're coming from - Keep focused on your son. It sucks, but it will get better with time. Good luck with all of this!

02-13-2006, 07:58 PM	#237
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	met with the attorney today. he says that there is no legal advantage or disadvantage to being the plaintiff vs respondent in arizona. it only signifies whose name is first on the paperwork. although she is claiming significantly less than i do, the documentation doesn't support that. and in the end, i will fight for primary custody and i don't care if i ever get a penny of child support. she would have to significantly alter/end her career to provide the day to day care for our son that i can do. because of the relatively short duration of our marriage alimony is a non-issue. i have my reasons to wait. as much as i hate being reactive, i have my reasons.

02-15-2006, 03:36 PM	#239
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Just passin along info tryin to help, I'm in PA so I guess its different here. How long have you been married? Sorry if that was in an earlier post and I missed it. My wife who was too stpid to be able to last more than two weeks at any job finally decided to just stay home. I've been working like a dog to provide for the family and then she claims that I abandoned "them" because I'm working all the time?!?!?!?!?!?

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