a well regulated militia

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by jaguar
Ironic; you dismiss the opposition as a 'load of blather' then claim they don't listen to you.

Oh, I <b>listened</b>, but that's why I called it blather. Your conclusions always seem driven by this simplistic view of the world that doesn't involve taking into account *why* people really do what they do, and what the *actual* consequences, unintended as well as intended, of passing laws really are.

My decision was based on the point that if you pull a gun on an armed assailant you're more likely to get shot.

That's another fable. The statistics I've read show that as a group, crime victims who resist fare <b>better</b> then those who "give it up". You may find it counter to your expectation based on your casual "fewer guns means less shooting" type of reasoning, but it's true.

The statistical likelyhood of me being gunned down accidetly in a driveby is signifigantly less enough in a bad suburb of melbourne or sydney, than lets say...inner LA is enough to prove a corralation between the number of guns around and the number of driveby shootings.

Jag, given how restrictive California gun laws are, LA is an <i>extremely</i> bad example of how gun control makes the streets safer. CA law is much closer to AU law on this score.

California, New Jersey, Massachusetts, New York, DC and such places have already succumbed to arguments such as yours, and they suffer the consequences daily...which generate the news stories that form your picture of daily life in the US.

Other jursidictions (33 of our 50 states and the majority of our population), where the law provides that the cops "shall issue" permits for legal ownership and carry when the applicant has a clean record have significanty lower rates of violent crime. In each of the states, the crime rate went down when the relevant law was passed.

"Shall issue" rather than "may issue" is important, because it removes discretionary issue...in the hands of local cops discretionary issue too often turns into one of those "prove to me you need this weapon" farces. New Jersey is typical; to get a carry permit in Jersey you effectively need to be either a cop or a politician.

That said, the real reason for gang warfare in the streets in LA is extreme poverty and drug prohibition. Absent drug prohibition, drug gangs wouldn't have so much money and territory to fight over.

As it is, they have so much money that in the magical event of effective worldwide gun prohibition, they could have underground gun foundries set up next to their underground drug labs. In fact, such a foundary would be *easier* to run than a crack factory, since the raw materials for guns and ammunition don't need to be imported.

Gun prohibition works as well as drug prohibition, which is to say "not at all"...and for the same reasons. Creating new categories of contraband simply creates a new black market....and black markets feed on each other.