Bush's Shrinking Safety Zone

[tw]

I'm not lying. You can trust me. I'm a religious fanatical extremist.

And so we believed everything he said - at least 25% of us who are also so religious extremist as to advocate and endorse torture.
From the BBC of 8 Dec 2005:

US blocks ICRC access to suspects
The US has admitted for the first time that it has not given the Red Cross access to all detainees in its custody.

The state department's top legal adviser, John Bellinger, made the admission but gave no details about where such prisoners were held.

Even a mental midget would never be this despicable. No wonder he needs Bolton in the UN. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition - did we.

[tw]

From the BBC of 7 Dec 2005:

US 'shifts' position on torture
The US secretary of state says the UN treaty on torture applies to American interrogators in the US and overseas, in an apparent shift in US policy.

The Bush administration has previously said the convention, which bans cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment, does not apply to US personnel abroad.

Wow! Suddenly its no longer acceptable for Americans to Gitmoize prisioners. Clearly god must have told George Jr something he did not know. Now George Jr, god's chosen disciple, can tell us all how to be good Christians.

Where are the above facts in error? Foolish me. I thought religous extremists were good people. My mistake.

[tw]

From the BBC of 7 Dec 2005:

'Tortured' Australian speaks out
A former Australian terror suspect says he was caught up in the controversial US policy of transferring detainees to foreign countries for interrogation. ...

The US State Department has not commented on his specific allegations, but says it does not transfer prisoners for the purposes of torture.

And clearly enlisted men brought dog collars with them to Iraq so as to walk naked prisoners down the halls of Abu Ghriad. Clearly Americans at the highest levels don't condone torture - just like Saddam conspired to attack the World Trade Center. After all, did not an honest president claim that in his State of the Union address?

Honest, decency, morality, and god's chosen people. Yep. That's US. Therefore when we torture, it must be for the greater glory of god ... or maybe our leaders are corrupt?

[tw]

We have two choices in Iraq. Either withdrawl to let Iraqis *earn* the government they want. Or send 500,000 troops in right now to end the insurgency. No. With Generals repeatedly complaining they don't have enought troops, instead, George Jr has decided he will appease you. He announced troop reductions. Not many. Just enough to hinder military operations in Iraq. He announced exactly what the Generals don't want.

At least in Vietnam where an insurgency also grew due to American presence, still, Americans could be relatively safe in Saigon or on the road to Tan Son Nhat airport. In Iraq, Americans cannot go in most all of Baghdad and are easily killed on but a five mile road to the airport. Yet somehow, George Jr tells us we are winning this war.

Meanwhile, it would appear the administration is quietly seeking to get out of Iraq.

... America's ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad said Americans could talk to any insurgents except extreme Islamists or former loyalists of Saddam Hussein; also said that Mr Bush had given him permission to "open a dialogue" with Iran, which has a (debatable) degree of influence over iraq's main Islamist Shia parties, over how best to bring stability to the country.

That from The Economist of 3 Dec 2005. Well at least the administration is slowly conceding what this author has been saying for years. Even George Jr has conceded that these are insurgents and not his mythical Al Qaeda terrorists. At current count, the US now knows of at least 74 different guerilla organizations. Even the little and overhyped Zarqawi group is suspected, in only eight months, to have grown from a few hundred to a few thousand active supporters.

These are intelligence estimated that have been previously underestimated in this war - as they also were in Vietnam. IOW how much larger is the insurgency in reality.

Recently 10 American Marines were killed in one attack in Fallujah. How can this be? Fallujah only has four entrances. All checkpoint equipped even with explosive sniffing machines. And yet still insurgents harmed 21 Marines in one (of many) attacks by using multiple artillery shells. Hiding those munitions in wreckage from a previous attack. All this inside a city that the US said was safe and that is kept munition free by four heavily guarded checkpoints.

Ahhh, the president would not lie. We are winning the "Mission Accomplished" war that we won years ago. And yet still Iraq produces less electricity today than when Saddam ran the country. George Jr hopes you never learn such facts. But we are winning. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

"Trust me", he says. Somehow I find that to be a tortured conclusion. Suggested by something I think I may have recently read (or quoted).

[lookout123]

tw- i don't necessarily disagree that we need more boots in the sand to bring this to a quick close... but have you read some of the independents, such as Michael Yon.

although the situation is far from good, it is necessarily as dire as we see on TV. i'm just sayin'.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lookout123

although the situation is far from good, it is necessarily as dire as we see on TV. i'm just sayin'.

Who is looking at TV? Do the numbers. Iraqi unemployment still remains just as high - well in excess of 50%. Why join the army? Army is one of the few jobs that actually pays. Now if that recruit can just stay out of combat - which is why so many Iraqi battalions disappear when the battle starts.

Where are these utilities that are provided how many years after "Mission Accomplished" was declared? Even Saigon had better electrical supply while we were losing the Vietnam War. Baghdad still has less electricity than when Saddam was in power. In Iraq, Americans don't leave the once called Green Zones. Even Vietnam was safer for Americans during that war.

American intelligence numbers say the insurgency is growing in numbers so large that they really are not sure how large the insurgency is. In only eight months, one insurgency group call Zarqawi could increase his numbers by a factor of ten! And new insurgency groups are appearing every month. This is widespread. So where is this victory?

The numbers say things completely different from what George Jr is preaching. For if things were getting better, then why is unemployment so high? Why have the number of battle ready Iraqi battalions only decreased - down to one. If things are getting better, then why have the military stopped talking about ongoing reconstruction? No sense talking about reconstruction when most projects were halted - some literally sabotaged. If things are getting better, then why does more than 25% of all reconstruction money, instead, go to security? Even in Vietnam, construction did not require so much security.

If this were Firestone, then we would all be blaming failures on someone else - ie Ford - and then claim the war against failing tires was being won. Then we could ignore the numbers of failed tires. If the war was being won, then Urbane Guerilla could post some facts demonstrating same. Well, maybe that is too much of a stretch.....

The facts stand sharply consistent with Vietnam of 30 years previous. Americans in Iraq must reside only in areas with multiple layers of security. There are few places outside of Kurdish and southern Iraq that is safe for any American without layers of protection. Even Fallujah, that was suppose to be a secured city instead saw multiple artillery shells maim 21 Marines. This in a city where those shells should have been detected by explosive sniffing machines. So how did all those bombs still get into Fallujah if we are winning this war? Deja vue Vietnam ... all over again. We won that war too? Yes, in the minds of those who denied reality of the numbers. Ie Willaim Westmoreland - may he also sizzle in hell and his own lies.

With current troop levels, we are losing the "Mission Accomplished" war. But the generals have always said we don't have enough troops. Who do you believe? Republican Party spin doctors who decided to "fix" Iraq and who now short the generals of needed troops? Or the generals who actually do the work? The generals say they don't have enough troops. Facts say that we are not winning "Mission Accomplished" - which is only consistent with what the generals are saying.

So how does George Jr win this war? He is currently on a propaganda campaign to 'win the war'. Clearly propaganda can win a war because the enemy is American minds. Does George Jr give the product people - the generals - what they need? Of course not. MBAs win by cutting costs - not solving problems. George Jr need only convince US that the war is being won. So again he can claim "Mission Accomplished". Deja vue Vietnam. The numbers say the "Mission Accomplished" war is being lost no matter how much propaganda George Jr spews.

The numbers are damning to any claim made by George Jr or President Cheney.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by lookout123

tw- i don't necessarily disagree that we need more boots in the sand to bring this to a quick close... but have you read some of the independents, such as Michael Yon.

although the situation is far from good, it is necessarily as dire as we see on TV. i'm just sayin'.

The Stryker Brigade that Mike Yon was with seems to be effective. But it looks to me it's like being the world champion at "Whack-A-Mole", they keep whacking but the "Mole" supply seems endless.

On another note....The Iraqui people have been so closely controlled, for so long, I wonder if they've lost all inititive to do anything but wait to see what they are given by the government?

[Griff]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

On another note....The Iraqui people have been so closely controlled, for so long, I wonder if they've lost all inititive to do anything but wait to see what they are given by the government?

It makes me wonder how fragile and complex voluntary associations between people are. As we in this country replace choices with mandates and interdependence with dependence, will we reach a tipping point?

[Gilk]

Originally Posted by tw

From the BBC of 7 Dec 2005: And clearly enlisted men brought dog collars with them to Iraq so as to walk naked prisoners down the halls of Abu Ghriad. Clearly Americans at the highest levels don't condone torture - just like Saddam conspired to attack the World Trade Center. After all, did not an honest president claim that in his State of the Union address?

Honest, decency, morality, and god's chosen people. Yep. That's US. Therefore when we torture, it must be for the greater glory of god ... or maybe our leaders are corrupt?

All politicians are corrupt. In order to attain that level of power, one must be willing to give up one's soul. There's no hope for this system or any other system of government that takes the power out of the direct control of the people. And until people can regulate themselves without chaos, there's no hope for that either.