APB: Cellarites missing.

[Undertoad]

Yup, long-timer

[DanaC]

This thread has been playing on my mind. I still think, as i always have, that marichiko was treated very badly. That as SamIam she copped to having been in a bad way and behaving badly at that time notwithstanding. From my perspective an apparent lie over a staplegun triggered a cery ugly response from this community. And had i been the recipient of some of that venom i might have gone off the deepend and been aggressive and nasty in response. I never could understand how it got so nasty and turn into such an 'us' against her free for all over some minor untruths from someone with a serious cognitive disfunction.

And here we are almost a decade later and an apparent untruth over a woodburning stove draws not just anger and viciousness but also a reinvigoration of the earlier assessment of her character.

I dont know if she lied about the wood. I dont know if she lied about the staplegun. And i dont care. If she has thrown in a lie about something relatively minor and unimportant in order to win an argument, well im sorry but i very mch doubt shes the only one here who ever has. None of it warrants the vitriol i have seen levelled against her over the years. And if at times shes been less than helpful to her own cause well i have some sympathy. Because when you are the focus of an all out community attack it is very easy to spit and scratch and attack as a form of defence. And mari/sam is definitely notthe only dwellar to do this. And few are so consistently held accountable or their evety failing as she has been.

Evety so often soneone has tried to explain to me why mari drew such harsh responses. None of those explanations seemed sufficient to me. And thy still dont.

At the time when the mari row was going on it really upset me. It made me question what this communty is actually all about. It's upset me to revisit that.

For the record, and if sam is reading: I like sam and i liked marichiko. And i truly do not give a flying fuck if she lied about the woodburner or lied about the staplegun. Because i am completely convinced that the core of what she presents is solid and honest.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I agree, Dana. The staple gun thing was a witch hunt. Who the fuck in their right mind is going to admit to a federal crime in a post? So you say it was a preposterous accident, and everyone knows you did it but can't prove it.

Yes she's predisposed to hyperbole, and I believe drawing on shit going on with people around her into descriptions of her life to simplify the story. But I'm convinced, I'd bet money, the shit she describes is real, it's really happening to real people.

I don't agree with her, 'this is where I want to live so someone should bring jobs here or provide for me', attitude. That ain't the way the world works, and never has. You provide for yourself being a farmer/hunter-gatherer, or you work for someone else. Working for someone means going where the work is.

But I feel she's basically a decent person that cares about others.

[Undertoad]

Truth is really the most important thing in the world to me. It's the basis of trust, which is the basis of all relationships.

The determination of truth is my lifelong mission. It is the foundation that we stand on. Without it we have nothing.

From my perspective an apparent lie over a staplegun triggered a cery ugly response from this community

That incident followed many, many lies which required careful reading; just like to find a lie about wood-burning stoves required remembering that she announced her landlord was fixing her furnace a year previously.

I dont know if she lied about the staplegun.

For what it's worth, she admitted to it; in the thread where that she claimed she was "better" and that her previous lies were a result of her addled personality during the time she was marichiko.

YOU may have liked marichiko but SAM denounced her. Ponder on that for a while.

i am completely convinced that the core of what she presents is solid and honest.

I feel she's basically a decent person that cares about others.

You may be right. Or you may be the victim, yes I say victim, of a carefully planned-out online persona, who has gamed you to gain attention and create drama for the sake of drama. Do you care?

What if I told you "she" is actually a 35-year-old male stockbroker with a family and kids in Toronto? What if I told you "her" IP addresses were never from Colorado at all? Would that change your opinion of "her"?

Does reality matter? It definitely does.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No it doesn't, we interact with what is presented.
If they are phony, it's their loss, not mine.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Truth is really the most important thing in the world to me.
It's the basis of trust, which is the basis of all relationships.

The determination of truth is my lifelong mission.
It is the foundation that we stand on. Without it we have nothing.
<snip>

What if I told you "she" is actually a 35-year-old male
stockbroker with a family and kids in Toronto? What if I told you "her" IP addresses
were never from Colorado at all? Would that change your opinion of "her"?

Does reality matter? It definitely does.

My initial post regarding SamIam had to do, not with whether
"she" was a "habitual liar" or not, but with the epithet that followed.

Now, several postings later, UT takes the position that Sam
is/was harmful to the (Cellar)community,
and that he exposed her in the thread about her furnace vs heat plate.
If that is his claim to fame, so be it... but IMO overly exaggerated .

BUT now more seriously, UT claims "truth" is his goal,
and seeks to win the argument by the sentence:

"What if I told you "she"...

UT: Are you being truthful in this statement that Sam is/was a hoax ?
Or just a specious debating ploy to win your position ?

If so, it is one of the most elaborate and consistent hoaxes I could imagine here in the Cellar.
I looked back over some of Sam's postings, and found pics of the same woman
with her dog, with her truck, on her 2011 road trip in the Colorado Plateau.
Her political positions taken throughout were consistent, and her descriptions
of "Bates Motel", it's environs, and citizens are congruent and convincing.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

You may be right. Or you may be the victim, yes I say victim, of a carefully planned-out online persona, who has gamed you to gain attention and create drama for the sake of drama. Do you care?

What if I told you "she" is actually a 35-year-old male stockbroker with a family and kids in Toronto? What if I told you "her" IP addresses were never from Colorado at all? Would that change your opinion of "her"?

Does reality matter? It definitely does.

I typically accept what people say/post at face value. For some reason, it doesn't bother me if they're lying. For all I know - really, truly know - UT and Blue are the only other live Dwellars. The rest of you might all be spambots. And UT and Blue might be NSA.

[Undertoad]

That's exactly what I have done.

I saw through lies and interacted with what was actually presented, instead of what was attempted to be presented.

[sexobon]

Time to lift and shift fire for awhile. Let's un-ban starring_emma, who should have reached the age of majority by now, and PM her an invitation. Maybe duck_duck too. Heck, let's find everyone with an underlined space in their username and identify them as targets. It's as valid a criteria as PETTY lies. Let the good times roll!

[Aliantha]

I have been thinking about the stove thing, and as long as theres some ventilation no one is going to die. It is quite possible that there is no lie to speak of in the first place.

Secondly, you cant make a grand statement about the search for truth and then agree that you're interacting with a falsehood knowingly. One or the other.

I dont like this side of the community. I have been subject to it myself. It's quite pathetic, and in large part, is why i dont post much these days and no longer contribute financially. It's getting old.

[Undertoad]

I'm sorry I was mean to your friend Ali. But please, regardless of what you think of my posts, never ignore the warning labels on a portable grill.

Also, for you and your family's safety, never confuse a portable grill with a wood stove. For example, wood stoves, which are used to heat spaces, are always ventilated to the outdoors with a chimney.

[ZenGum]

moving along ..


Oi, where the F is MoreThanPretty?

ETA last visit 06 - 27 -2013. Maybe she's on holiday.


Why does Infinite Monkeys last visit show as N/A?

[Aliantha]

Yeah i know the difference.

I actually wouldnt say sam and i were friends. Certainly not enemies either though. Just two people inhabbitting the same corner of cyberspace from time to time.

I just dont see the issue. Sure it might be dangerouse to burn wood indoors with little or no ventilation, but seriously, are you the fire police? Maybe i can see a reason to call someone an idiot for doing so, but not a liar. Plenty of people do stupid or risky things. Who is to say sam isnt one of those people?

As to the drama queen comment, she's not the only one of those on this site, and its the fact that she gets called out for it and others dont that is the problem for me.

Personally, i think theres an off switch for a reason. Or even ignore.

[Undertoad]

Yeah i know the difference.

You clearly don't! The difference between a wood stove and a portable grill is very clear and obvious. THIS IS IMPORTANT!

For your sake and your family's sake, do not confuse the two, and do not ignore the warning labels. I am not fire police but I am CERTAIN THAT REAL FIRE POLICE WOULD TELL YOU NEVER TO OPERATE A PORTABLE GRILL INDOORS. It would be incredibly dangerous. I realize I have lost your trust but PLEASE consult real fire police if you don't believe me!!

[Flint]

Quick overview here... Someone is burning a portable grill indoors? That person is an idiot. You are going to die in your sleep. I don't give a shit if you think I'm an asshole, because you will be dead in the morning because you are a ƒucking idiot who will be posthumously awarded the Darwin award.

Take your knee-jerk response of indignation and redirect that energy towards not stupidly killing yourself. You are dumb.