11/3/2004: Eagle helicopter

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Uryoces

The $600 Allen wrenches would bug me more than the $200 of paint. By the way, the US operates the largest collection of Hinds, even taking into account Russia.

Why?

[Uryoces]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Why?

Why Allen wrenches or why the Hind Helicopter group?

Allen Wrenches: More a figure I pulled out of my ass as a matter of comparison.
i.e. The paintjob doesn't bother me. Neat.

Hind Helicopters: I know for Aggressor squadron training for one reason. Due tothe number here in the US, we have the largest Hind-24 fleet in the world.

[xoxoxoBruce]

The $200 Allen wrench, $600 hammer and $900 toilet seat are expensive for a very good reason. Mil Spec, shorthand for Military Specification.

Let’s say we want to add a little bracket to a helicopter. Just a 1” x 1” x 4” piece of angle aluminum that’s 1/8th of an inch thick. Simple? Hell no!
After we draw a picture of what it looks like and where it goes, the Army must approve it.
First the piece of angle; Who made the aluminum and when; who cut off the piece we are using and when; who/when heat treated it; who/when tested the results of heat treat; who/when alodized it with what chemicals, from what batch, made by whom/when, under what contract was the alodine transferred to the aplicator. All the same info for the primer and again for the paint.
Then we come to who/when, under what contract, drilled the holes; who/when inspected the piece; who/when applied the sealant (and the same info for the sealant as the paint); who/when riveted it (and the whole history of the rivets); who/when inspected it for the company and same for the Army.
Now take this reams of information, organize it in a specified manner, and keep it forever.
Boeing has a record of every part I machined in 1966 and what ship it was used on.
That’s why everything is so damn expensive, the paperwork.
Just to buy a copy of the Mil Specs would cost thousands and thousands of $.

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The $200 Allen wrench, $600 hammer and $900 toilet seat are expensive for a very good reason. Mil Spec, shorthand for Military Specification.

Let’s say we want to add a little bracket to a helicopter.
...
That’s why everything is so damn expensive, the paperwork.
Just to buy a copy of the Mil Specs would cost thousands and thousands of $.

Well considering the way our boys are over in Iraq now soldering scrap metal to their Mil Spec vehicles for added protection, I'm inclined to say 'Bollocks!" to all that. Hey, who knows...maybe they've got Mil Spec blowtorches over there, costing a couple of car payments apiece over there. Or perhaps the scrap metal is Mil Spec Scrap Metal©

[xoxoxoBruce]

The rivers shall run the wind will blow...........I know this may sound silly or even somehow politically incorrect, but to me we are not threatned by intellect but the unwiilingness to reflect...............

That's as clear as mud, but it covers the ground.

[onetrack]

Boeing has a record of every part I machined in 1966 and what ship it was used on

Bruce - That makes me feel real comfortable .. knowing that, when the wing drops off the 747, I'm flying in .. the investigators who pick over my remains, will be able to put down .. on another hundred reams of paper .. just WHY that wing fell off .. and WHO was responsible ..

Another oxymoron .. would have to be, in the U.S. military system of recording EVERY part, EVERY supplier, EVERY quality angle, and EVERY repair .. only to put the chopper into the sky .. to then have it blasted into scrap .. by a $500 shoulder-launched RPG .. probably built in a backyard foundry in Farkeruppestan .. by an illiterate radical fundamentalist ..

Ye-e-s, technology works .. but how little it takes .. to make it all fail ..

[xoxoxoBruce]

If the wing of your 747 falls off and they find out a part is at fault, they can quickly locate all the planes that have parts from the same batch.

I suspect the Mil Spec system grew out of the military desire for orderly sameness, the ability to get the same thing from numerous suppliers, and be assured "the lowest bidder" isn't cutting corners. But of course, like anything the gumint does, it grew like topsy.
It's like "Mothers against drunk drivers", if you criticize any aspect of their dogma, you're labeled a heretic that doesn't support the troops.
The military is getting savy to the fact that by going through the lengthy process they won't get the latest and greatest. This has become an issue as they rely on more high tech materials and electronics. Some military aircraft are going with electronics used in commercial planes. That is for non-weapons systems of course.