Fascists

[evansk7]

Originally Posted by DanaC

There are also a lot of people who use the asylum system because it is sooooo hard to get a work permit for britain unless you happen to come from a desirable country ( like America, or Australia) ....

It's really not that hard to get a work permit for the UK if you have transferrable skills. By that, I mean you can get a job and pay taxes to support the country, just like all the people who are already here and paying taxes to support the country.

If, on the other hand, you don't have transferrable skills which will benefit the country, why should you be allowed in? If you're in immediate danger? Sure. If your native country will persecute you on the basis of your beliefs? Maybe - it kinda depends on the level of persecution. If you just don't like the country you're from, and think you could have a better life (and your kids could have a better life) here in the UK than you can in <insert name of country of origin here>? No. Sorry. You're simply not welcome, if you can't contribute at least as much to the country as you will eventually withdraw from it - there are more than enough people here who are already struggling.

My dad, who's lived in the UK all his life, served in the forces and defended his country against terrorists, and seen friends and colleagues killed in the name of that fight (largely funded by America, incidentally - please don't make the mistake of thinking I believe that the good ol' USofA is saintly and pure), is currently trying to find a job. He's got a proven track record in the telecommunications industry, and has held several jobs in the field. He's been a successful technical director of large companies, turned around departments from losing money to making profit, and generally is good at what he does. And he's struggling to find work, and my parents may ultimately have to sell their house and move out if he can't find a job. He can't get any benefits, because he left his last job voluntarily - the stress was beginning to make him depressed (clinically so) and making his life a living hell, so he left.

So, tell me again how we've got all these jobs we need people to come and fill?

In the financial year April '99 to April 2000, I paid in excess of £40,000 in income tax. The following year, I moved to NYC. More on that later. I spent two years working (as a UK employee of a UK company, paying UK tax) based in NYC. I spent 18 months out there, and then had to come back. I couldn't get a job for several months, because I was "too expensive" - the fact that I was willing to work for a small salary didn't matter; the employers were worried that I'd take their job, find something better, and leave. I couldn't get any benefits either, because I hadn't been made redundant (I was ultimately fired for visa reasons; more on that later too). So I wound up pulling pints behind a bar for well below the minimum wage, just to get enough income to eat. Just to recap, I'd paid well over £40,000 in tax only a year and a half ago, and had been earning a UK salary and paying UK tax and NI on it for the last 18 months.

So, tell me again how we've got all this "spare money" we need to give away to people who aren't:

a) legitimate asylum seekers
or
b) skilled immigrants

I understand you would have nothing against them if they found a legal channel in.

Please note, at no point have I suggested that any of my job-hunting woes, or my father's, are the result of any kind of immigration policy. I'm just attempting to set the stage to support this contention:

We have more than enough people in this country already, who need help. You talk of a duty to help people less fortunate than us, and of society's obligation to give something back; why start with people from another country? Why not give something back to those people living below the poverty line, or who've worked their entire life and may now have to sell their house because they can't find a job, despite their very best efforts?

the system which makes it so difficult for Mexicans to get in legaly and yet so easy for say....me.....

No such system exists. It's REALLY hard to get into the US and work legally, for me. I don't have a degree (never really saw the point in the UK, so left after 6 months and got a job instead) but I do have 8 years of experience in the high-tech industry. If I do say so myself, I'm damned good at my job, and every single one of my employers will back me up on that.

Yet I couldn't get a visa to get into the US. We spent a great deal of time and money on immigration lawyers, we petitioned senior members of the INS (friends of my boss), and all to no avail. I wound up moving to the US on the UK payroll, and spending my time flitting about between countries. We got a lawyer to draft - at considerable expense - an opinion on what I could and couldn't do on a B1 "business visitor" visa, and stuck to that. I'd go see a client in the US, but I couldn't actually bill for my time. I'd agree to do some work for them, and I'd fly back to the UK, do the work in our UK office, and then fly back out and deliver it. I'd be paid in UK pounds, into a UK bank account, by the UK office. I paid $5 or so every time I used an ATM, because my account was in the UK. I had to rent an apartment from one of the guys at work because without a social security number no landlords would let anything to me. Quite the pain in the ass. In the end, I wound up getting fired because the costs of travelling back and forth, and the associated inconvenience, made it impossible for me to stay.

I really enjoyed my time in the US, but it's really not easy to immigrate there, for anyone. The system is not inherently racist, it's inherently exclusive. And that's just fine, when you think about it; those with the skills, determination and qualifications to immigrate are allowed to do so, but those who already work in the country aren't unfairly disadvantaged by an influx of cheap labour. And yes, it's cheap labour; I took £20 - £30k less than I'd have wanted for the same job in the UK simply because I'd get to live in New York for a while.

So I've been on both sides of the table. I'm all for immigration when it adds something to the country, and I don't give a damn where someone comes from. I'm all for asylum when it's genuinely necessary to protect someone, and I don't give a damn where they're running from.