What good do you see in it all?

[jane_says]

Whew! Straw man much, smooth? None of the things in your first paragraph are possible according to existing US law. As for V-chips, I thought they were for TVs, but for the sake of argument I'll assume you mean an ID or tracking device. If that's not the case, please correct me. I think that even if the slightest hints if your scenario should come to pass, the Right Wing, Bushies themselves, would have him put out as the Antichrist.

The events you describe are so far-fetched as to be unanswerable. Someone, somewhere, is going to have quite a stockpile of weapons. Somewhere, that someone would have enough sense to use them against the president in this case, or the vice president, and whomever comes behind them, until the "regime" is ended. it's also my (admittedly unpopular) opinion that if the Iraqi people had truly wanted out from under Saddam and his ilk, they'd have staged coup after coup until sanity prevailed. But they didn't. My belief is that horror, if it's an already known, predictable horror, is preferable to the unknown in many cases. People are scared of change - think, on a smaller scale, of battered spouses afraid to leave.

The Brits are our allies. We are not allies to the Iraqis. I don't recall us sending ballots out to Joe and Mary Muslim asking if they wanted our help. I recall dancing in the streets when the statue of Saddam was overturned, but I don't recall them singing our praises much since then. Maybe that's because we aren't asking?

I have to believe that even while making this argument, you see the folly in it. I understand using hyperbole to make a point, but I'm sure you recognize that what you are suggesting *might* happen is a distinct impossibility, so there's no merit in saying what I might or might not feel. The sky *might* fall, and I *might* wish for someone to prop it back up, but as rational thought prevents me from worrying about it, I cannot speculate what my reaction might be.

Our unwarranted invasion of Iraq is not a hypothetic, it has already occured. As I said before, I do not condone killing. But I have to wonder why that now, since we have the dictator in hand, we continue to occupy a nation which has every bit as much right to sovreignty as we do, and to terrorize, imprison and abuse its citizens.

Your analogy just won't fly, SM. A closer one to the current Iraqui reality would be more as follows: Bush becomes dictator and the scenario you describe unfolds itself, but instead of the Brits coming to our rescue, its the Chinese. Now we are not only reeling from the horrors of the recent Bush dictatorship, we are trying to deal with the invasion of a people who do not speak our language, are ethnically different than most of us, and who want to impose a system of government that we have no experience with and find threatening at best. On top of that, none of these Chinese are Christian. They seem to be some strange blend of atheist communists crossed with a wierd oriental belief in Confuscianism which most of us know nothing about. There is a more true parallel of what's going on in the Mid-East today.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by jane_says

The events you describe are so far-fetched as to be unanswerable. Someone, somewhere, is going to have quite a stockpile of weapons. Somewhere, that someone would have enough sense to use them against the president in this case, or the vice president, and whomever comes behind them, until the "regime" is ended.

If someone had said in 2000 it was possible for someone to hijack two jets, fly them into both World Trade Center towers, and completely demolish both towers, how far-fetched would you have classified it.

These kinds of questions have always been asked. After WWII and during the Cold War, there were many movies about possible political unrest in the US. An analysis of many of the Nazis who committed atrocities found most of them to be clinically sane, not to mention all of those who stood by and let the Holocaust happen. The most dangerous phrase is always 'It could never happen here'. It is very similar to the one recited by 11 million people in German concentration camps.

Since September 11th, a great deal of power has been concentrated in the executive branch. We already know that Nixon attempted to abuse his authority with government agencies, in essence declaring himself to be the government and to have any criticism of him investigated as criticism of the United States itself. More power has been given/returned to the White House than Nixon ever had at his disposal.

Our founders were very wise in installing three branches in our goverment as checks and balances. Of course, since a President can sometimes select members of the Supreme Court and hand picks the Attorney General, sometimes the relationship does not always appear as adversarial as it should be.

Nixon's impeachment by a true bipartisan Congress was one of our nations best and worst days at the same time. It demonstrated that noone was above the law and that when necessary, Congress had the will to uphold some basic standard of democracy above party affiliation and politics as usual.

The fact is that most patriots start out as traitors and most 'freedom fighters' as terrorists. The label only changes if they win. Thanks to the Patriot Act, we are safer than we have ever been from terrorists. We are also safe from patriots, if we should ever need them.

Our only hope in a stable and functioning democracy is the ethical backbone of Congress when it really matters, the impartiality of the Supreme Court, the apolitical stance of our military and their commitement to 'support and defend the Constitution', and an informed, actively engaged public that is able to balance a desire for liberty with that of safety.

Movies about Bad Things That Can Happen Here

Seven Days in May (1968)

Fail Safe (1964)

Enemy of the State (1998)

The Siege (1998)

The Pelican Brief (1993)

Movies about Bad Things That (Almost) Did Happen Here

All the Presidents Men (1976)

Thirteen Days (2000)

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Movies about Bad Things That Can Happen Here

Seven Days in May (1968)

Fail Safe (1964)

Enemy of the State (1998)

The Siege (1998)

The Pelican Brief (1993)

Movies about Bad Things That (Almost) Did Happen Here

All the Presidents Men (1976)

Thirteen Days (2000)

What...no
The Manchurian Candidate ?