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Old 12-10-2012, 10:16 PM   #11
BigV
Goon Squad Leader
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 27,063
mostly sexobon, orthodoc, griff, some of my other fellow parents and others... whatever. just thinking out loud here.

I have kids a little older (and one younger) than Ibby. I love them dearly. I know that's a cliche, it's still true though. That love has been around since before they were born, and I don't think there's anything that will ever change it. How that love is expressed, that changes with the circumstances. How I feel at a given moment toward them, that changes too. What I expect from them, also changeable. What I do for them, what I say to them, those kinds of things vary. I want the best for them always. I love them always, regardless.

All I have as their parent is my credibility. I've worked all their lives to build my credibility, to earn and justify their trust in me. Mostly I've succeeded, but it hasn't been a uniformly upward trend. And it's not the same in every area. Some things they're sure I know a lot about, some things they're sure I know nothing about. When they were younger, I did a lot more telling about stuff. I love the socratic method of teaching and I use it a lot; it's my first tool out of my bag usually.

But there are lots of things I've found that don't work when I'm trying, in good faith, in love, to teach my kids. Corporal punishment, that was probably the first tool they grew out of. They're too big to spank into compliance or comprehension, been too big for a long time. Because I'm the Daddy, tha's why force of personality, that's... those days are gone too. The older they get, the more sophisticated their capacity to reason, the more I've needed to persuade in order to teach. Persuasion's the key.

When I look at what it takes to persuade, that's when I notice that all I have is my credibility. If they believe me, if they trust me, they'll accept what I say. Ironically, even if I'm wrong, they'll still believe me, but maybe only temporarily until they learn better. And that's all exactly what I have striven for as their parent *all along*. Think for yourself. Be able to assess the quality of what you're hearing for yourself. Now, if I have that credibility, I'll start off with 'points', but I'd better be proven right in their experience or I'll suffer a loss of credibility and I'll have a harder time telling/teaching/guiding/helping them in the future. That's sad for me as their Dad because I always want to help.

These older critical thinkers, with their ability to reason and argue, without that credibility, they can't be *told* anything. In fact, until they start the conversation by asking for my input, the conversation is just like that teacher in the Charlie Brown cartoons "Waaaah Waaah Waaah Waaah". I'm reminded of the proverb "Teaching a student before they are ready is like hammering on cold iron."

I care for Ibby. Not like my child, I don't intend to patronize, but like a friend. She's entitled to her opinion about mercy, just as I am entitled to mine. I'm not interested in persuading her otherwise--we just disagree, we just have a different opinion about him. But when it comes to objective assessments, those are less open to interpretation.... anyhow, I'm rambling a bit. It is my observation that regarding most of the conversation here that is not directly about mercy, Ibby has vested more credibility in the sources he's privy to than he has vested in most of the posters here. We're hammering on cold iron.
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