How Do You Define Morality?

[orthodoc]

Originally Posted by DanaC

orthodoc, the thing about Marxist philosphy is that it takes as its basis a democratic process as the goal. Communism in theory is about as democratic as it's possible to be. The idea of Sovietsin every workplace, each sending representatives to a larger body who then send reprentatives to an even larger one until eventually every town, city and factory has a say, in theory is highly democratised. Now, obviously the way it was actually done in Russia didn't meet that model. But the theory had a lot of interesting possibilities.

The trouble arises in the gulf between theory and practice. In Russia there were Soviets in every workplace and town. My father-in-law had to watch pro-communist films at night after working all day, and if he nodded off in exhaustion he was woken up with the business end of an assault rifle. The kulaks in Ukraine didn't want their farms taken away and collectivized, so Stalin deliberately starved them to death. The democratic part broke down.

Originally Posted by DanaC

We all think of Marx as the one who came up with socialism, but actually he was merely one part (though a biggy I'll grant you) of a strand of political thinking that was around in much of Europe at the time. There were groups in England in the late 18th century who were experimenting with communal living long before Marx was writing.

Some of them were the monasteries (I am familiar with Orthodox monasteries, rather than RC ones)! The communal model has always been the monastic standard. However, these are small communities whose main raison d'etre isn't to attempt an ideal economic or social system. Most small communes I've read about that are based primarily on a social model don't seem to have done well long-term. Still, I realize there was a great deal of legitimate unrest and frustration in Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Originally Posted by DanaC

And you'd find most socialists (and indeed most communists in my country) would also work against a government that sought to control "education, activities, career choice, and offspring - number, sex, and parents thereof, along with finances".

While the Soviets in Russia didn't dictate who should get married, they did control education, activities, and careers. China has dictated number of children per family. I admit that sex and parentage are an extrapolation, but one that isn't far-fetched if a very efficient government were in control. It would be the logical development of assessing each person's appropriate contribution to society.

In Canada the public schools promote socialist philosophy, and kids are taught that policies different from Canada's are 'bad' (my kids experienced this when we were back there for a couple of years). No discussion of alternate policies or politics was permitted. This, in my view, is one type of socialist control of education. Whereas in American schools my kids have been presented with and have discussed several models of government, politics, and issues such as health care.

Originally Posted by DanaC

The history of leftwing activism in my country includes fights against laws which dictated who could do what trade or job, it includes the fight against overbearing employers who sought to dictate morality to their workforce. It's about increasing freedom, not curtailing it.

I completely agree with the institution of labor laws that provided for safe working environments, reasonable work hours, and an end to child labor. Unfortunately, in Canada leftwing activism has led to unions that do curtail freedoms - that dictate who can do what trade or job, and who employers must or must not hire. The streets are monitored with video cameras and a pilot project is in place to try interactive video, i.e. allowing the 'watcher' to shout orders or warnings to people who are violating accepted behavior. In spite of the fact that the government constantly told me (through radio and TV commercials and broadcasts) what I should be doing to be a safe, healthy, good citizen, I did not feel protected. I felt spied on, helpless, and angry.