I can't believe no one else has brought this up yet, so...

[Happy Monkey]

Indeed, but they couldn't have kicked him out of his spouse's funeral.

[wolf]

They sure as shit could have, if they were bigger and/or more plentiful.

[Happy Monkey]

Perhaps in a legal vacuum. Which exist in places.

But I expect what really would have happened is that the spouse would have organized the funeral, and it would have taken place in a location where the cops would not turn a blind eye.

[Elspode]

TW is correct...marriage *is* a legal construct. Unfortunately, the current trend is trying to force a religious morality requirement upon those seeking to enter that legal construct.

That's wrong.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by Skunks
Big snip- The terrorism scare aside, it seems like some people would be happier as a Muslim.

Maybe in the USA but I doubt they'd be happy in the middle east.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by Elspode
TW is correct...marriage *is* a legal construct. Unfortunately, the current trend is trying to force a religious morality requirement upon those seeking to enter that legal construct.

That's wrong.

Yeah, he's right on the money but don't tell him I said so.

[tw]

Originally posted by Happy Monkey
But I expect what really would have happened is that the spouse would have organized the funeral...

If spouse is gay, then spouse can plan a funeral only if all other family members permit it. Cops must ban the gay spouse from a funeral if any one family member requests it - because the laws currently and intentionally discriminate against gays.

Religion is only between you and your god. Once your religion affects others - makes the laws - then that religion is satanic. What has the Pope ordered American Catholic politicans to do? Change all laws to conform with church doctrine. No Pope ever before demanded that of any American law maker. But then religion has a sad history of advocating hate - latest hate is against gays and against victims of child molesters. Exactly why religion is a bad reason for making laws and results in bad laws.

When a religious leader advocates the advancement of mankind, then we often have a major leader who is actually in conflict with his peers. Yes, even priests who rescued Jews from Nazi Germany were doing so against the will of Pope Pius.

[Happy Monkey]

That's what was implied by "would have happened". That's what "would have happened" if he had been permitted to be married. But he wasn't, and so the family was able to bar the one person from the funeral who would have been most wanted by the subject of the funeral.

[elSicomoro]

From MSNBC:

Entering a national debate over gay marriage, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley said he would have "no problem" with Cook County issuing marriage licenses to gay couples in Chicago, the nation’s third-largest city. Daley's views came as President Bush said he was "troubled" by San Francisco’s same-sex wedding spree.

Daley urged sympathy for same-sex couples because "they love each other just as much as anyone else."

Chicago mayor Daley also dismissed a suggestion that marriage between gay couples would undermine the institution. "Marriage has been undermined by divorce, so don’t tell me about marriage," he said. "Don’t blame the gay and lesbian, transgender and transsexual community."

[xoxoxoBruce]

Is Daley up for election this year. Syc?

[elSicomoro]

No...he won re-election last year with 79% of the vote.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No matter how strong his convictions, an old political war horse like Daley, never does anything without considering the political ramifications. So he's doing this from a position of strength rather than as a political ploy. Cool.

[Griff]

Originally posted by tw
Yes, even priests who rescued Jews from Nazi Germany were doing so against the will of Pope Pius.

I usually ignore the various anti-Catholic diatribes here but this one is getting old.

What cannot be questioned is the integrity, the charity, and the deep commitment to humanity of Pius XII. It is idel to speculate about what more he could have done, for unlike most of the leaders of his day, he did very much.

-Joseph Lichten, International Affairs Dept. for the Anti-Defamation of B'nai B'rith.


We share in the grief of humanity at the passing away of his Holiness Pope Pius XII. IN a generation afflicted by wars and discords, he upheld the highest ideals of peace and compassion. When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of the Nazi terror, the voice of the Pope was raised for the victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out on the great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace.

- Golda Meir

Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I felt a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty

-Albert Einstein

[xoxoxoBruce]

I think it's fair to say Pius XII could not have done more to stop the "Final Solution". By that time he had capitulated with the Nazi's to try to save to Catholic Church from being destroyed.
By agreeing not to oppose the Nazi rise to power the parish priests were allowed to take care of their parishes day to day needs. And the Vatican was allowed to remain a free state.
That said, his doings before becoming Pope in the Writing of cannon law and increasing the power of the Pope, so that power was removed from the priests and centered in Rome, were a blow to RCs everywhere. I'm of the opinion he did more harm to RCs than to Jews.

[elSicomoro]

First San Francisco, now Sandoval County, NM.