Eric Holder releases 9 secret documents from Bush administration

[Shawnee123]

He needs more than percocet.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

lol @ that photo.

Holy shit! It's MEATHEAD!

TGRR,
Misses All In The Family.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by Brianna

That was before the ravages of percocet addiction got to him.

Oxycontin..."Hillbilly heroin".

[Shawnee123]

Oh he does look like Meathead. All he needs is a little Sally Struthers.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Oh he does look like Meathead. All he needs is a little Sally Struthers.

BUT MIIIIIIIIICHAEL...
\

[Shawnee123]

lmao!

[classicman]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

. Eventually though the cuts will balance out the spending. We have to be patient and give him time.

Sure they will, and based upon HIS numbers the economy is going to grow at 3-4% for the next few years - contrary to what virtually every economist says. If it doesn't grow at that rate the deficit is going to be gigantic!

Originally Posted by classicman

Sure they will, and based upon HIS numbers the economy is going to grow at 3-4% for the next few years - contrary to what virtually every supply side economist says. If it doesn't grow at that rate the deficit is going to be gigantic!

fixed that for ya....now that I got the hang of it.

The National Association of Business Economics, just one group among many economists, who see a solid recovery beginning in 2010, based in large part on the impact of the stimulus package.

A survey of leading economists finds them now forecasting a far deeper and more painful recession ahead in the first half of the year, but a modest pickup in the second half of 2009, followed by a solid recovery in 2010....


..Still, the optimism that the economists had back in November has been pushed back, rather than abandoned. They forecast that the economy will see healthy 3.1% growth during the course of 2010, as they expect unemployment to start to ease as employers add 1.3 million jobs during the year..

Economists see deeper pain, followed by gain

The Obama budget projection is 3.2% for 2010....followed by 4% in 2011 and 2012, well within the range of many economic projections.

So where are these "virtually every economist" you speak of?

[Undertoad]

That would be an annual growth number never achieved during the Clinton era, and only 2 years out of 8 during the W. era.

It could happen, but the projection took balls.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

That would be an annual growth number never achieved during the Clinton era, and only 2 years out of 8 during the W. era.

It could happen, but the projection took balls.

A gdp annual growth rate of 3-4% is hardly out of the norm, particularly given the depth to which it has sunk over the last two years.

But I'm not an economist.....just challenging classic's bold statement about "virtually every economist.'

Last year, the Fed projections:

Fed officials substantially downgraded their GDP projections, expecting at best weak growth into 2010. At their October meeting, the 17 current Fed policymakers forecast economic output in 2009 ranging from a 1% decline to a 1.8% increase between the fourth quarter of this year and the final three months of next year. Excluding the three highest and lowest figures, the forecasts fall between -0.2% and 1.1% next year and between 2.3% and 3.2% in 2010. The 2011 projections appear to be all over the map: ranging from 2% to 5% GDP growth including all policymakers, or 2.8% to 3.6% under the central tendency forecasts.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/...ess-into-2010/

This was right after the election and well before the economic stimulus package, which even the most pessimistic economists believe will likely contribute to economic growth....the difference of opinions is which part of the stimulus (spending or tax cuts) and how much growth might result.

[Undertoad]

That was before the reporting of the worst quarter (4Q08) since 1958.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

That was before the reporting of the worst quarter (4Q08) since 1958.

The latest Fed projections from Jan 09....and include GDP growth of 2.5 -3.3% in 2010 and from 3.8-5.0% in 2011.

The CBO projection (pdf) in GDP growth from a Jan report are a less optimistic 1.5-2.5% increase in 2010 and an annual average of 4% in 2011-2014.

So, at the very least, you have Fed economists, CBO economists, National Association of Business Economics economists, and many other economists, who might not necessarily include themselves in the "virtually all economists dont agree with Obama economic growth estimates."

What you have, for the most part, are virtually all supply side economists at the Hoover Institute, Heritage Foundation, etc.

[classicman]

Analysis: Obama recovery plans sowing some unease

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama offered his domestic-policy proposals as a "break from a troubled past." But the economic outlook now is more troubled than it was even in January, despite Obama's bold rhetoric and commitment of more trillions of dollars.

And while his personal popularity remains high, some economists and lawmakers are beginning to question whether Obama's agenda of increased government activism is helping, or hurting, by sowing uncertainty among businesses, investors and consumers that could prolong the recession.

Although the administration likes to say it "inherited" the recession and trillion-dollar deficits, the economic wreckage has worsened on Obama's still-young watch.

Every day, the economy is becoming more and more an Obama economy.

More than 4 million jobs have been lost since the recession began in December 2007 — roughly half in the past three months.

Stocks have tumbled to levels not seen since 1997. They are down more than 50 percent from their 2007 highs and 20 percent since Obama's inauguration.

The president's suggestion that it was a good time for investors with "a long-term perspective" to buy stocks may have been intended to help lift battered markets. But a big sell-off followed.

Presidents usually don't talk about the stock market. But the dynamics are different now.

A higher percentage of people have more direct exposure to stocks — including through 401(k) and other retirement plans — than ever.

So a tumbling stock market is adding to the national angst as households see the value of their investments and homes plunge as job losses keep rising.

Some once mighty companies such as General Motors and Citigroup are little more than penny stocks.

Many health care stocks are down because of fears of new government restrictions and mandates as part a health care overhaul. Private student loan providers were pounded because of the increased government lending role proposed by Obama. Industries that use oil and other carbon-based fuels are being shunned, apparently in part because of Obama's proposal for fees on greenhouse-gas polluters.

Makers of heavy road-building and other construction equipment have taken a hit, partly because of expectations of fewer public works jobs here and globally than first anticipated.

"We've got a lot of scared investors and business people. I think the uncertainty is a real killer here," said Chris Edwards, director of fiscal policy for the libertarian Cato Institute.

Some Democrats, worried over where Obama is headed, are suggesting he has yet to match his call for "bold action and big ideas" with deeds.

In particular, they point to bumpy efforts to fix the financial system under Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.

Obama may have contributed to the national anxiety by first warning of "catastrophe" if his stimulus plan was not passed and in setting high expectations for Geithner. Instead, Geithner's public performance has been halting and he's been challenged by lawmakers of both parties.

Republicans and even some top Democrats, including Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, have questioned the wisdom of Obama's proposal to limit tax deductions for higher-income people on mortgage interest and charitable contributions.

Charities have strongly protested, saying times already are tough enough for them. The administration suggests it might back off that one.

Even White House claims that its policies will "create" or "save" 3.5 million jobs have been questioned by Democratic supporters.

"You created a situation where you cannot be wrong," the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Montana Democrat Max Baucus, told Geithner last week.

"If the economy loses 2 million jobs over the next few years, you can say yes, but it would've lost 5.5 million jobs. If we create a million jobs, you can say, well, it would have lost 2.5 million jobs," Baucus said. "You've given yourself complete leverage where you cannot be wrong, because you can take any scenario and make yourself look correct."

Republicans assert that Obama's proposals, including the "cap and trade" fees on polluters to combat global warming, would raise taxes during a recession that could touch everyone. "Herbert Hoover tried it, and we all know where that led," says House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio.

The administration argues its tax increases for the households earning over $250,000 a year and fees on carbon polluters contained in its budget won't kick in until 2011-2012, when it forecasts the economy will have fully recovered.

But even those assumptions are challenged as too rosy by many private forecasters and some Democratic lawmakers.

Many deficit hawks also worry that the trillions of federal dollars being doled out by the administration, Congress and the Federal Reserve could sow the seeds of inflation down the road, whether the measures succeed in taming the recession or not. The money includes Obama's $3.6 trillion budget and the $837 billion stimulus package he signed last month.

Polls show that Obama's personal approval ratings, generally holding in the high 60s, remain greater than support for his specific policies.

"He still has a fair amount of political capital, so the public is willing to cut him some slack and go along with him for a while," said pollster Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center. "But the public will have to get some sense that the kinds of things he's proposing are going to work, or are showing some signs that they are working."

Allan Sinai, chief global economist for Decision Economics, a Boston-area consulting firm, said the complexity and enormity of the crisis make it hard to solve.

"There's no way to get it all right, regardless of which president is making policy," Sinai said. "The problem is the sickness got too far. The actions taken, medicine applied, were mainly the wrong actions. So it's just worse, and it gets harder to deal with. At this stage, there is no easy answer, no easy way out. It's a question of how we fumble through."

Originally Posted by classicman

Analysis: Obama recovery plans sowing some unease

I dont question that there is some unease, including among some Democrats in Congress and among some economists who generally are supportive of the stimulus plan.

What I questioned was the bold statement about Obama's economic growth projections of 3-4% over the next few years as being:

Originally Posted by classicman

.....contrary to what virtually every economist says

The Fed agrees with those projections as does the NABE and to a lesser extent, the CBO.

In other words, the statement is virtual bullshit.