Sycamore's Interactive War Diary

elSicomoro · 03-20-2003, 09:32 PM

A collection of photos, thoughts, and other odds-and-sods that I will cull during wartime.

Today, I was listening to CBC Radio One Toronto (which is currently broadcasting nationwide war coverage), and a reporter went to a Muslim grade school in Calgary to talk to the students.

Now granted, I realize that these were just 13 and 14 year old kids, but some of what I heard coming out of their mouths worried me.

Many of course were upset about the US going to war against Iraq. They expressed their concerns about how innocent civilians would be killed, how the US is only concerned about oil, etc. But then one girl said that if we are so concerned about nuclear weapons, why don't we attack North Korea? And it was the way she said it--as if it was cool to bomb North Korea, but not Iraq.

Then, this same girl mentioned that b/c Iraqis are Muslims, the war hurts them that much more.

What concerned me so much about these statements was that these kids seemed to put too much religion into the current situation. I'm not a fan of this war, but I'm pretty certain that this war is NOT about Christianity vs. Islam. We're not attacking Iraq b/c they are a Muslim nation.

What are these kids being taught at home? Are they looking at various sources before coming to these conclusions, or is it them mirroring their parents' beliefs? (I'm leaning more on the latter. Though, they seemed like well-articulated kids. The internet and satellite television allow kids to learn more about the world now than I could at age 13 in 1988.)

This underscores one of my biggest gripes about organized religion. In some sects of each one, it seems to go "You attack one of us, you attack all of us." That's something I might expect from a country, but a religion?

Very unsettling. I hope this is the exception and not the rule.

Pie · 03-20-2003, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
... they seemed like well-articulated kids...

I'm imagining an accordian-like teenager...

- Pie

elSicomoro · 03-20-2003, 10:06 PM

Play a particular key, the kid makes a different noise.

About 2000 or so folks decided to protest the war in Chicago tonight. They wound up taking over Lake Shore Drive (probably Chicago's busiest street), snarling evening traffic.

(From AP and the Chicago Sun-Times)

These sort of protests have been happening here in Philadelphia. One occurred Tuesday night I believe, in front of Dilworth Plaza at 15th and Market. Several of them lay down in the crosswalk at 5pm, and blocked traffic moving south on 15th St.

To give non-Phila folks an idea, this is in front of our City Hall, which sits in the middle of the street...on a square. Traffic moves counter-clockwise around City Hall. This blockade prevented traffic coming around City Hall from North Broad St. and westbound Market St. from moving forward. A real mess.

I'm all for peaceful protest. Hell, if there's a decent protest rally over the weekend, I might go. But I'm not a fan of blocking traffic, which is colored by something personal.

What if a hospital calls Rho saying that they have a kidney for her? And she drives around City Hall towards one of the hospitals in the area, not knowing what is about to occur. Then, b/c of the time it takes her to get to the hospital, the donor kidney is no longer usable.

Of course, this applies to many situations...ambulances, police cars, fire trucks, etc.

The Philadelphia Police has decided to treat them with kid gloves, primarily due to problems involving the police and protestors during the 2000 Republican convention here. Our police commissioner, Sylvester Johnson, has said in so many words that they will let protestors disrupt traffic.

Here's an idea, you dumbfuck: Next time, don't rough up protestors and use dirty tactics to prevent peaceful protest. Then, you won't have to fear charges getting dropped and your asses getting sued. Then you won't fear moving these people out of the way, locking 'em in a paddy wagon, and driving them off.

03-21-2003, 07:31 AM

Exception and not the rule? Where have you been the last year and a half? Every fucking whiny asshole Muslim in every publication talks about how this is a war on Islam. I've seen maybe five who haven't. I've got no problem with Islam, but this makes me want to strangle someone. Yes, yes, of course it's a war on Islam! That's why our country is the most free place to practice it! That's why we're not invading any of the other Muslim countries! That's why we're backing a - wait for it, wait for it - Muslim leader in Afghanistan!

Get fucking real. I hate people.

slang · 03-21-2003, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave
Get fucking real rant

Please don't flip-flop on your opinion here just because I agree with you.

Hey, whaddafuk is a muslim again?

elSicomoro · 03-22-2003, 01:54 PM

Gestures were discussed in another thread. I happened to find a page that discusses various gestures in Arab culture. There is also this PDF file on Arab gestures and taboos from the Navy, which includes the "thumbs up" gesture (it's at the bottom of page 10 of the file).

There is currently a pro-American rally in Clarksville, TN, near Fort Campbell. It's all good, so long as it doesn't turn anti-Muslim, or devolve into something like some of the anti-war rallies.

Quote:

Originally posted by dave
Exception and not the rule? Where have you been the last year and a half?

Hmmm...well, I've lived in Philadelphia since September 2000. I've done some traveling throughout the northeast: DC, New York, Boston, the Poconos, the Jersey Shore. Other than that though, I've been in Philadelphia.

I think a good chunk of the "war on Islam" talk is just that--talk. Give someone a mic, an opportunity, and an audience, and it's amazing what they'll say. Sort of like when the media talk to hardcore Klan members, and they start spouting off shit like "we're protecting the white race" and "niggers are inferior."

I would like to think that most Muslims don't think that way. Including some of those talking on TV. Perhaps the shock and fear provokes an emotional response. Perhaps it's meant as a scare tactic. We're only hearing from what? 200-500 Muslims? Out of a billion?

Akbar Ahmed is a professor of International Relations at the American University in Washington, DC. He did an interactive essay for the BBC that discusses relations with the western world and Islam. Good stuff...check it out. (Click on the link, then click on Mr. Ahmed, then watch the video or read the transcript. You may also be interested in the other essays presented.)

Slang, you know! Muslims...those dirty low-life fighters that believe some god named Allah! It's sacriligious, I tell you!

wolf · 03-22-2003, 02:19 PM

In the navy document, I found the information starting that the bottom of page 12 interesting ... related to appropriate handling of the Qur'an. That's a lot to remember when you're sitting down to read.

Overall, good stuff.

elSicomoro · 03-22-2003, 05:41 PM

Damnit! They attacked Pennsylvania!

Camp Pennsylvania, that is...

slang · 03-22-2003, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by peacemonger
Damnit! They attacked Pennsylvania!

Camp Pennsylvania, that is...

Could you explain this comment for those of us that cannot read your mind.

elSicomoro · 03-22-2003, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slang
Could you explain this comment for those of us that cannot read your mind.

Certainly.

wolf · 03-22-2003, 06:16 PM

Thank you.

I would have thought that "securing the camp perimeter" was part of Warfare 101 ... that's was part of lessons learned in Vietnam, Korea, WWII ... (etc etc) I'm not surprised at the addition of small party incursions, which I think will ultimately prove to be more damanging than a lot of the direct assult by divisions stuff.

elSicomoro · 03-22-2003, 07:40 PM

From CBC's Web One: Manipulating Minds: The Psychological War on Iraq. Best to check out on broadband.

Talk about me being in the dark...I had no idea that Keith Olbermann was now a news anchor for MSNBC.

wolf · 03-22-2003, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
From CBC's Web One: Manipulating Minds: The Psychological War on Iraq.

That was both simpler AND more clever than I expected.

Once again, thanks for finding something cool and relevant.

elSicomoro · 03-22-2003, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
I'm not surprised at the addition of small party incursions, which I think will ultimately prove to be more damanging than a lot of the direct assult by divisions stuff.

As I understand it, a missing member of the division has been taken in for questioning. Damn...I sure hope it wasn't an inside job.

elSicomoro · 03-23-2003, 04:10 AM

I just watched the VP of Iraq speak. According to MSNBC, he was talking about how everything was going well for them. But truth be told, I didn't understand a fucking thing he was saying. It could have been the translation, but it just seemed like he was going off on some sort of tangent...he could have been talking about how much he would like a McChicken sandwich for all I know.

Now up and running at Sycamoreland: The War Room at Sycamoreland. I intend it to be a place for news links, info, and comic relief. Thus far, the news links are up, along with a smidge of trademark Sycamore commentary. Check it out.

03-20-2003, 09:32 PM	#1
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Sycamore's Interactive War Diary A collection of photos, thoughts, and other odds-and-sods that I will cull during wartime. Today, I was listening to CBC Radio One Toronto (which is currently broadcasting nationwide war coverage), and a reporter went to a Muslim grade school in Calgary to talk to the students. Now granted, I realize that these were just 13 and 14 year old kids, but some of what I heard coming out of their mouths worried me. Many of course were upset about the US going to war against Iraq. They expressed their concerns about how innocent civilians would be killed, how the US is only concerned about oil, etc. But then one girl said that if we are so concerned about nuclear weapons, why don't we attack North Korea? And it was the way she said it--as if it was cool to bomb North Korea, but not Iraq. Then, this same girl mentioned that b/c Iraqis are Muslims, the war hurts them that much more. What concerned me so much about these statements was that these kids seemed to put too much religion into the current situation. I'm not a fan of this war, but I'm pretty certain that this war is NOT about Christianity vs. Islam. We're not attacking Iraq b/c they are a Muslim nation. What are these kids being taught at home? Are they looking at various sources before coming to these conclusions, or is it them mirroring their parents' beliefs? (I'm leaning more on the latter. Though, they seemed like well-articulated kids. The internet and satellite television allow kids to learn more about the world now than I could at age 13 in 1988.) This underscores one of my biggest gripes about organized religion. In some sects of each one, it seems to go "You attack one of us, you attack all of us." That's something I might expect from a country, but a religion? Very unsettling. I hope this is the exception and not the rule.

03-22-2003, 02:19 PM	#7
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	In the navy document, I found the information starting that the bottom of page 12 interesting ... related to appropriate handling of the Qur'an. That's a lot to remember when you're sitting down to read. Overall, good stuff. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-22-2003, 06:16 PM	#11
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Thank you. I would have thought that "securing the camp perimeter" was part of Warfare 101 ... that's was part of lessons learned in Vietnam, Korea, WWII ... (etc etc) I'm not surprised at the addition of small party incursions, which I think will ultimately prove to be more damanging than a lot of the direct assult by divisions stuff. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-20-2003, 10:06 PM	#3
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Play a particular key, the kid makes a different noise. About 2000 or so folks decided to protest the war in Chicago tonight. They wound up taking over Lake Shore Drive (probably Chicago's busiest street), snarling evening traffic. (From AP and the Chicago Sun-Times) These sort of protests have been happening here in Philadelphia. One occurred Tuesday night I believe, in front of Dilworth Plaza at 15th and Market. Several of them lay down in the crosswalk at 5pm, and blocked traffic moving south on 15th St. To give non-Phila folks an idea, this is in front of our City Hall, which sits in the middle of the street...on a square. Traffic moves counter-clockwise around City Hall. This blockade prevented traffic coming around City Hall from North Broad St. and westbound Market St. from moving forward. A real mess. I'm all for peaceful protest. Hell, if there's a decent protest rally over the weekend, I might go. But I'm not a fan of blocking traffic, which is colored by something personal. What if a hospital calls Rho saying that they have a kidney for her? And she drives around City Hall towards one of the hospitals in the area, not knowing what is about to occur. Then, b/c of the time it takes her to get to the hospital, the donor kidney is no longer usable. Of course, this applies to many situations...ambulances, police cars, fire trucks, etc. The Philadelphia Police has decided to treat them with kid gloves, primarily due to problems involving the police and protestors during the 2000 Republican convention here. Our police commissioner, Sylvester Johnson, has said in so many words that they will let protestors disrupt traffic. Here's an idea, you dumbfuck: Next time, don't rough up protestors and use dirty tactics to prevent peaceful protest. Then, you won't have to fear charges getting dropped and your asses getting sued. Then you won't fear moving these people out of the way, locking 'em in a paddy wagon, and driving them off.

03-21-2003, 07:31 AM	#4
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Exception and not the rule? Where have you been the last year and a half? Every fucking whiny asshole Muslim in every publication talks about how this is a war on Islam. I've seen maybe five who haven't. I've got no problem with Islam, but this makes me want to strangle someone. Yes, yes, of course it's a war on Islam! That's why our country is the most free place to practice it! That's why we're not invading any of the other Muslim countries! That's why we're backing a - wait for it, wait for it - Muslim leader in Afghanistan! Get fucking real. I hate people.

03-22-2003, 05:41 PM	#8
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Damnit! They attacked Pennsylvania! Camp Pennsylvania, that is...

03-22-2003, 07:40 PM	#12
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	From CBC's Web One: Manipulating Minds: The Psychological War on Iraq. Best to check out on broadband. Talk about me being in the dark...I had no idea that Keith Olbermann was now a news anchor for MSNBC.

03-23-2003, 04:10 AM	#15
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I just watched the VP of Iraq speak. According to MSNBC, he was talking about how everything was going well for them. But truth be told, I didn't understand a fucking thing he was saying. It could have been the translation, but it just seemed like he was going off on some sort of tangent...he could have been talking about how much he would like a McChicken sandwich for all I know. Now up and running at Sycamoreland: The War Room at Sycamoreland. I intend it to be a place for news links, info, and comic relief. Thus far, the news links are up, along with a smidge of trademark Sycamore commentary. Check it out.

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