You Go Boy, Drop That Pump

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

... When the govenment starts to ration gas because of a shortage and issue some kind of quota on how much you can use then it might be an issue. Till then gas is not being rationed as water is in time of a drought. You cannot really think that water as a finite resource is comparable to gasoline.

TheMercenary - I agree with you completely: water isn't really used up, it just gets recycled. Oil, as you said, is a finite resource. Once it's gone, it's gone. It's not going to rain more oil.

So perhaps there should be steps to limit consumption. I'll support you on this. But is it best implemented through a quota system, or through a significantly increased gas tax, or something else?

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by HLJ

This is similar to the gasoline/oil debate. If there is a limited resource that everyone is depending on, are you entitled to use a disproportionately large share just because you can afford it.

Water is required for life, gasoline is not. Many people think gas is a necessity, but you're not going to die without it.

Down here when a hurricane comes, they only laws enacted on gas are anti price gouging ones intended for emergencies. Even though everyone needs gasoline for generators or evacuations and shortages abound, the state doesn't ration it and everyone still seems to do just fine.

Tell that to someone on a respirator.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Tell that to someone on a respirator.

I had no idea there were gasoline powered respirators. For those that need power during a storm for life sustaining equipment, I'd highly suggest installing a natural gas powered system that runs off the local supply. Being that power outages in hurricane prone areas can last for weeks, there's no way I'd trust my life to an unleaded gas generator since it is so difficult to stock the stuff or find it before, during, and after a storm hits.

The best plan for people that require power for their life sustaining equipment: have enough gasoline in your car and a decent evacuation plan. Don't stick around if your life is in danger. It isn't worth it.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by HLJ

TheMercenary - I agree with you completely: water isn't really used up, it just gets recycled. Oil, as you said, is a finite resource. Once it's gone, it's gone. It's not going to rain more oil.

So perhaps there should be steps to limit consumption. I'll support you on this. But is it best implemented through a quota system, or through a significantly increased gas tax, or something else?

I don't think a tax is the answer. I think when Congress grows some balls and tells all auto makers that sell trucks and cars in the US to raise the cafe' standards to a minimum of 30 mpg for all cars, not an average, we really will not see any changes. We need to eliminate special interest lobbying and go to a bi-cameral legislation. My pipe dream... There is no shortage of oil. I don't think all the sources have been properly exploited yet. No way even near. But that does not mean that we should not begin a smooth transition to alternative sources. It will happen.

Exactly, punitive taxes are for socialists... not Americans..

Originally Posted by Kitsune

I had no idea there were gasoline powered respirators. For those that power during a storm for life sustaining equipment, I'd highly suggest installing a natural gas powered system that runs off the local supply. Being that power outages in hurricane prone areas can last for weeks, there's no way I'd trust my life to a gas generator since it is so difficult to stock the stuff or find it before, during, and after a storm hits.

The best plan for people that require power for their life sustaining equipment: have enough gasoline in your car and a decent evacuation plan. Don't stick around if your life is in danger. It isn't worth it.

What do you think we use to run electricity after a hurricane?
How will that natural gas get delivered after the second week of downed services?
I live in this place, you do not... speak of what you know. It is a lot easier to stock and run a gas gen than natural gas here. There are no in ground lines, and where there are, most of the times service is interrupted after a storm, tree roots pull them up.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

What do you think we use to run electricity after a hurricane?
How will that natural gas get delivered after the second week of downed services?
I live in this place, you do not... speak of what you know. It is a lot easier to stock and run a gas gen than natural gas here. There are no in ground lines, and where there are, most of the times service is interrupted after a storm, tree roots pull them up.

Well, I guess you're taking your chances, then. There's absolutely no way I'd do it. I'm not even a native and I've seen enough shortages and hoarding during the last four years of storms to know I wouldn't trust a generator if my life depended on it. I'd get the hell out.

The state repeatedly tells people they're on their own for at least 48 hours following hurricane landfall. Defense, food, water, everything is up to you. I don't think rationing has ever happened due to a hurricane, here, nor would I trust the government when simply getting gasoline supplies into the state is damn near impossible for many days after the catastrophe.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

What do you think we use to run electricity after a hurricane?
How will that natural gas get delivered after the second week of downed services?
I live in this place, you do not... speak of what you know. It is a lot easier to stock and run a gas gen than natural gas here. There are no in ground lines, and where there are, most of the times service is interrupted after a storm, tree roots pull them up.

And you need power to run the pumps that pump the gas. The key is to have your own stock and run a generator sparingly. I would say most should plan for 2 to 3 weeks of no power in a worst case senerio. I live right on the coast and have no doubt that I can hold out for that long. I have a boat that holds 135 gal. That is a great resource for a generator that holds 4 gallons of gas.

We have a hand pump... people keep forgetting that we own a ranch and many groves.

On our own for 48hrs, LOL, what a genius! Try weeks.
During season we keep military gas cans stored behind each home... there are several, remember?

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I don't think a tax is the answer. I think when Congress grows some balls and tells all auto makers that sell trucks and cars in the US to raise the cafe' standards to a minimum of 30 mpg for all cars, not an average, we really will not see any changes. We need to eliminate special interest lobbying and go to a bi-cameral legislation. My pipe dream... There is no shortage of oil. I don't think all the sources have been properly exploited yet. No way even near. But that does not mean that we should not begin a smooth transition to alternative sources. It will happen.

You're right. The biggest problem with a tax is that it hurts the poor the most.

The thing that I'm really afraid of is government monitoring of vehicle travel, which has been proposed in some countries - using electronic tags on vehicles to measure vehicle miles travelled and tax based on that.

P.S. Good word, bi-cameral. You sure you were in the military? (I was in the SeaBees.)

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by HLJ

You're right. The biggest problem with a tax is that it hurts the poor the most.

The thing that I'm really afraid of is government monitoring of vehicle travel, which has been proposed in some countries - using electronic tags on vehicles to measure vehicle miles travelled and tax based on that.

P.S. Good word, bi-cameral. You sure you were in the military? (I was in the SeaBees.)

Very cool. Thanks for your time of service. My dad (was) and brother are both Navy Vets. The latest thing I heard about was London talking about taxing vehicles that came into the city, with those going to the most congested areas at peak times the highest. I see the purpose in the thought process, it just sounds so punitive.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

We have a hand pump... people keep forgetting that we own a ranch and many groves.

On our own for 48hrs, LOL, what a genius! Try weeks.
During season we keep military gas cans stored behind each home... there are several, remember?

I find the "48 hour rule" to be pretty unreasonable, too. Especially for people out your way, I'd plan on not hearing anything from authorities for...yeah, weeks. Even out here I'd plan on not getting help for four or more days. Really sad.

It took a week when we lived in a regular residential neighborhood one year.

[TheMercenary]

Look at the Katrina survivors. That ought to be a pretty good example of a worst case situation.