Who are you? Can you prove it?

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They didn't arrest him for being guilty, then arrested him on suspicion of being a fugitive.

All this and an example of a NJ soldier returning to his unit when stopped (because a childhood friend stole his identity) for hours (and therefore AWOL) was discussed previously including:
A National ID Card

That discussion defined two things needed: 1) method to prove you are who you claim, and 2) method to protect your identity; verify that no one else is using your ID.

Meanwhile, a recent HP boardroom story is but another example of a system perverted. HP even released Social Security numbers of Board Members to many shady organizations. This part of a program that involved stealing board member phone records, stealing records of those who board members called, and intentionally creating and installing viruses on third party computers.

Once a SS number is distributed (as with those board members), then you are done - cooked - compromised. You cannot change that SS number. You cannot retrieve that number. It was never intended for such identification purposes (and neither was a driver's license). If you have a problem with this summary and did not read the previous details, then don't reply. Above sentences are intentionally vague so that you will assume erroneous conclusions or will read the Nov 2001 discussion.

If cops follow all current LAWS governing their behavior, at all times, we do not need a national ID card.
The card is just a more convenient method of stealing someone's ID... not the other way around.
Your example of the SSI# issue proves the point... not the other way around.

[JayMcGee]

True, you do not need a national ID card......

the technology already exists to 'chip' everbody with ID info....


care to place bets when it will 'required, in the interests of National Security and the Fight against Organsised Crime and Terrorism' when it will be mandatory for all new-borns? ..... then immigrants.... tourists.... over 21's....?

[xoxoxoBruce]

They'll start with babies. Convince parents that they need it for protection from everything... kidnapping to wrong prescriptions to mistaken identity.

Well you got your dog chipped, do you care more for your dog than your kids?

[wolf]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

True, you do not need a national ID card......

the technology already exists to 'chip' everbody with ID info....


care to place bets when it will 'required, in the interests of National Security and the Fight against Organsised Crime and Terrorism' when it will be mandatory for all new-borns? ..... then immigrants.... tourists.... over 21's....?

That will be the day that I go underground.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by tw

All this and an example of a NJ soldier returning to his unit when stopped (because a childhood friend stole his identity) for hours (and therefore AWOL) was discussed previously including:
A National ID Card

That discussion defined two things needed: 1) method to prove you are who you claim, and 2) method to protect your identity; verify that no one else is using your ID.

Meanwhile, a recent HP boardroom story is but another example of a system perverted. HP even released Social Security numbers of Board Members to many shady organizations. This part of a program that involved stealing board member phone records, stealing records of those who board members called, and intentionally creating and installing viruses on third party computers.

Once a SS number is distributed (as with those board members), then you are done - cooked - compromised. You cannot change that SS number. You cannot retrieve that number. It was never intended for such identification purposes (and neither was a driver's license). If you have a problem with this summary and did not read the previous details, then don't reply. Above sentences are intentionally vague so that you will assume erroneous conclusions or will read the Nov 2001 discussion.

Y'know, tw, thats probably the best post of yours I've seen. I didnt realize it was you until the very very end.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They'll start with babies. Convince parents that they need it for protection from everything... kidnapping to wrong prescriptions to mistaken identity.

So, would now be a good time to mention that Texas has a relatively new statewide database tracking kids' immunization records from birth through teens? You can still choose not to have your kid entered in it, for what that's worth.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by wolf

That will be the day that I go underground.

Really? If everyone had a chip in them, think of the time it would save! You wouldn't have to sit up all night with your gun when this happens. Have to prove that Clinton was in a hotel room with Jennifer Flowers? Just look at the record. Want to know where Osama Bin Laden is? Beep-beep-beep: there he is, in Boca Raton, or Riyadh. Want to check out who realllly goes to church every Sunday. Pop! There it is. Where's Jimmy Swaggart? In a hotel room, whacking it while looking at a hooker. I wouldn't want a chip in me, but I'm surprised that you don't support this repubican/conservative control mechanism.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Really? If everyone had a chip in them, think of the time it would save! You wouldn't have to sit up all night with your gun when this happens. Have to prove that Clinton was in a hotel room with Jennifer Flowers? Just look at the record. Want to know where Osama Bin Laden is? Beep-beep-beep: there he is, in Boca Raton, or Riyadh. Want to check out who realllly goes to church every Sunday. Pop! There it is. Where's Jimmy Swaggart? In a hotel room, whacking it while looking at a hooker. I wouldn't want a chip in me, but I'm surprised that you don't support this repubican/conservative control mechanism.

Heh, sounds a couple of steps past "The Transparent Society".

[tw]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

True, you do not need a national ID card......

the technology already exists to 'chip' everbody with ID info....

The point was that nobody should need be 'chipped' - a same problem that exists with a SS number. Meanwhile a basic function of government should provide everyone with an opportunity to have identity proof AND identity protection if they so want.

To 'require' everyone to prove who they are has actually been proposed by the George Jr administration. "Where are your papers?" is the fatherland security mentality. An identity system designed to serve government - not serve the citizen. This is a major principle. An ID system must serve the citizen - not government. We have already seen how government and wacky HP women so fear honest Americans. An ID system must be protected from spying presidents and corporate chairman who have lived in the ethersphere too long.

That previous discussion was very explicit as to what is required of an identity proof and identity protection system. One is that the program must be free of government 'wiretapping without judicial reviews'. Another is the program is for the benefit of the citizen - not for the benefit of government law enforcement and not for the benefit of 'immune from prosecution' presidents.

Notice that I also did not call it a National ID for an important reason. It is not for the nation. Its purpose is to serve the citizen. Many important details were in that previous discussion:
A National ID Card

[xoxoxoBruce]

They'll sell the idea like trans-pass, just walk right through that turnstile/scanner or go wait in that line over there for three hours.
You have a clear choice to participate in the program or not. The nots will be instant suspects of course, but you have a choice.

Originally Posted by wolf

That will be the day that I go underground.

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by capnhowdy

info chips planted just under the surface of our skin. Communism in progress. Shit.

If there is a chip available there will be one goin in my kid...the number of pedo's and other creeps out there are just gettin worse. if my child winds up missing i want to be able to find them immediatly, and the perv who kidnapped them. Of course I won't be happy if they are able to use the technolory to find out that it was me who chopped the perv into tiny little pieces...

[capnhowdy]

Even if (or when) the chip thingie becomes mandatory, it won't take a mastermind to perfect an alternate/deactivate technique. For every ping there is a pong.

I already have a chip on my shoulder.... don't need one under my skin.

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

If there is a chip available there will be one goin in my kid...the number of pedo's and other creeps out there are just gettin worse. if my child winds up missing i want to be able to find them immediatly, and the perv who kidnapped them. Of course I won't be happy if they are able to use the technolory to find out that it was me who chopped the perv into tiny little pieces...

There is a bracelet available... we are getting it for our son.