Hezbollah night-vision gear manufactured in Britain

[headsplice]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Yes, and that's the problem with Bush-bashers. They go on and on...

If you're a cult member it creates a warm fuzzy feeling of belonging. Otherwise it's just tedious.

Unbeliever! You'll burn in Hell!
Or you might, you know, be arrested for being you. Whatever.

[Hippikos]

If you're a cult member it creates a warm fuzzy feeling of belonging. Otherwise it's just tedious.

Being one of the 35% Bush lovers left, it's more likely that you begin to be member of a cult club...

It's official now:

There's no evidence Saddam Hussein had a relationship with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his Al-Qaida associates, according to a Senate Report (page 70) on prewar intelligence on Iraq.

[Aliantha]

I heard Mr Bush on the news saying that 'it doesn't matter what we believe...ummmm...errr...our enemies believed it and that was enough'.

I'm just wondering if all wars are started because of what the enemy believes?

[tw]

More examples of lying as normal from the George Jr administration. From the NY Times of 8 September 2006:

C.I.A. Said to Find No Hussein Link to Terror Chief
The Central Intelligence Agency last fall repudiated the claim that there were prewar ties between Saddam Hussein’s government and an operative of Al Qaeda, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, according to a report issued Friday by the Senate Intelligence Committee.

The disclosure undercuts continuing assertions by the Bush administration that such ties existed, and that they provided evidence of links between Iraq and Al Qaeda. The Republican-controlled committee, in a second report, also sharply criticized the administration for its reliance on the Iraqi National Congress during the prelude to the war in Iraq.

Who is calling the George Jr administation liars? A Republican dominated committee. But then it did not take a genius to know that this George Jr administration lies persistently. So frequently that only an extremist addicted to blind bias could deny it.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by tw

But then it did not take a genius to know that this George Jr administration lies persistently. So frequently that only an extremist addicted to blind bias could deny it.

To be fair, in the runup to war when these lies were told, people still believed Bush. Absent clear proof, you have to take your President at their word. It's only with a few years of hindsight that we have more than just an uneasy gut feeling that he's a liar.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Being one of the 35% Bush lovers left, it's more likely that you begin to be member of a cult club...

Cults are not characterized by minority status, they are characterized by the memetics of the belief system. For example, Nazism is a cult, but in Germany in 1940 it wasn't a minority.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's because Adolf modeled a fer us or agin us climate, copied by Saddam and attempted by Bush Jr.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That's because Adolf modeled a fer us or agin us climate, copied by Saddam and attempted by Bush Jr.

There's much more to cult memetics than that...one reason your attempt to tar Bush with that brush is flawed. Or would you apply it to FDR too?

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

To be fair, in the runup to war when these lies were told, people still believed Bush. Absent clear proof, you have to take your President at their word.

Then why was I posting so many citations and concepts that repeatedly suggested George Jr was lying back then? I did not enter 2001 with this much contempt for him. He has earned this contempt as, starting in 2001, we witnessed lie after lie. It is apparently why someone in the German Chancellery leaked notes of that first Bush/Schmidt meeting in 2001. It is why the foreign minister of Norway suggested that George Jr would destroy the Oslo accords. Even the need for a strategic defense missile system was promoted on lies - when no enemy existed AND when this nation's top most experts said the system would not be effective.

My god - even George Carlin the comedian saw through those George Jr lies when he defined two terrorist in a row boat paddling into New York harbor, throwing a suitcase on the dock, and rowing out.

Let’s see. George Jr said no one expected terrorists to highjack airplanes and fly them into buildings. That is a first chapter in a best selling Tom Clancy novel because those who come from where the work gets done feared same more than five years previously. That is exactly what terrorists tried to do in Paris to destroy the Eiffel Tower. Even George Jr's own PDB suggested a same scenario. So George Jr lied again. When your president lies persistently, how do you take his word for it?

Ok - I lived through Vietnam and made sure I understood why Vietnam happened. Leaders that lie. So maybe I am more sensitive to when presidents lie frequently. We now have a history lesson. Learn what scumbag leaders do. See what George Jr did in 2001, 2002, and 2003. Appreciate why I accurately smelled an extremist rat so early. Don’t let the president in 2030 do it again. I saw this lying with Nixon. Perfect example complete with a president who sees enemies lurking everywhere. I wonder what they call George Jr’s enemies list?

Even John Lennon could get on Nixon's enemy's list - just another symptom of a president who lies. All he said was, "Give peace a chance." That made Lennon an enemy to extremists.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by tw

I wonder what they call George Jr’s enemies list?

"moveon.org"

[tw]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

"moveon.org"

From what I have seen, Moveon.org is its own worst enemy. Are they reliable enought to even create a list?

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by tw

From what I have seen, Moveon.org is its own worst enemy. Are they reliable enought to even create a list?

They're apparently able to send out spam, and to spend George Soros' money. I actually used to be on their list, back in the day when Clinton was thought to be a cute widdle wascal.

[tw]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

...back in the day when Clinton was thought to be a cute widdle wascal.

Oh for the good old days when presidents only lied about things we all lie about - sex. Today we lie to murder 98,000+ Iraqis, to torture, to kidnap people all over the world (extraoridinary renditions), to claim loots was not ongoing, wiretap Americans without judicial review, to fly to John McCain's birthday party as New Orleans was drowning, call arsenic in the drinking water acceptable, pervert science for the glory of religion, corporate welfare to anti-American steel and big pharma, and blame it all on a mythical network of world wide terrorists. Oh for the good old days when presidents were honest and there was no reason for 'moveon' to exist.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by tw

Oh for the good old days when presidents were honest and there was no reason for 'moveon' to exist.

Like Kennedy? Of course, he had the excuse that nobody asked...

Perhaps "everybody lies about sex" (I don't think that's true either), but we don't all have the opportunity to do so under oath. That being the original "reason for Movon.org to exist".

[tw]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Perhaps "everybody lies about sex" (I don't think that's true either), but we don't all have the opportunity to do so under oath.

Why is lying under oath about sex only equivalent to a president that kidnaps people all over the world, hides them in secret prisons, and has no problem with torture? It says something about extremists. Extraordinary rendition and torture is just as evil as lying about sex? No wonder I have so little respect for left and right wing extremists who see enemies everywhere. In a world of perspectives, extremists see lying about sex as more evil than torture. No wonder extremists so desperately want Armageddon.