Alcoholics Anonymous is a Religion

I cannot remember which literary wag said it , but I have always liked the line ' I drink to make you lot seem more interesting ' . Perhaps that would be a good thing to tell those holier-than-thou AA people you refer to , Brianna .

I have always liked the other classic too : 'An Englishman is born two whiskies under par' . Some nations , on the contrary , seem to be born drunk ( lucky them) . My father's theory is that wise Mohammed knew this , and this is why he banned the booze for his own people .

On a more somber note , I also think the line from the drunk to the Little Prince , by Antoine de St Exupéry is relevant . The drunk tells the Little Prince that he drinks to forget he is a drunk . That is surely the worst reason of all to drink too much .

[Crimson Ghost]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

I know this doesn't work for everyone, but I didn't turn myself over to a 'higher power' and I didn't go to any meetings, I took control of myself.

Stormie

The one and only time I turned my life over to a "higher power", I got a snappy uniform and went on vacation on the "Uncle Sam Vacation Plan".

[Pie]

440V?

[Chewbaccus]

Originally Posted by Crimson Ghost

I am powerless over my bills, and nothing but money may restore me.

Folks, to be fully blunt with you all, I've seen more snide, self-righteous sentiment here on this board to this point than I have in any AA room I've ever been in. (Granted, I've also never been in a place that Rock described, but still.)

You lot can drink and put the bottle down. Congratulations. You are not an alcoholic. An alcoholic is not "that guy at the bar that has one final drink before last call". Alcoholism is a form of a mental disease whereby the victim simply cannot feel good about him or herself without an external stimulus to that particular part of the brain. Alcoholics use booze. Other drug users use their particular drug of choice. Sex addicts bone. Alcohol for an alcoholic is just the way that particular person manifests their problem.

The public speaking thing, you'd be amazed. First of all, someone doesn't walk in on their first day and spill their guts. It takes quite a while. Further - and this is just my hypothesis - people are spooked about speaking to crowds mostly because they know/see/interact with the people in said crowd on a fairly regular basis, therefore any error or public humiliation will stay with them long after they have left the podium.

In AA, you (by and large) don't know the people in the rooms. Everyone's on a first-name basis, which seven times out of ten is usually an alias. When you get up to speak, you know that (A) what you're about to say is very similar to what you've been hearing others say for the last X meetings you've gone to with your own personal twists to it, and (B) what you say in that room stays in that room. It won't be a topic of conversation at the water cooler, people won't be looking at you funny at the bowling alley, or at the grocery store, or when you pick your kid up at school. When you get up and say your story, nobody for whom it isn't their first time looks at you judgmentally beacuse they recognize the guts it takes to stand up and they also know they've been down a parallel path.

We hear terms "higher power" and "turning your life over" and we make them punchlines. But the fact is that these people cannot simply "stop drinking". They can't take control of themselves, by themselves. They admit this to others, to themselves, and I don't think enough of us realize the sheer magnitude of that admission in a society like ours where self-control and self-reliance come so highly prized.

Say what you will, make all the jokes you want, but the fact remains that there's some serious fucking courage in a lot of those meetings. It's not something to be mocked. It's something to be lauded.

[dar512]

Well written Chew. America as a culture is cynical about pretty much everything. Thanks for reminding us that there are people making hard won changes in their lives. Not all heroes are famous.

[Rock Steady]

Good post, Chewbaccus. There are a lot of things to be lauded. Just like any human endeavor there are imperfections.

Anyone that took control themselves was not an alcoholic in the first place. It's hard to understand why someone else can't take control of themselves, by themselves. But that is the nature of the disease.

[Stormieweather]

I apologise if I came across as self-righteous. That was not my intent. I admire each and every individual who has the willpower to fight alcoholism, whether it be via AA meetings or any other method.

I merely meant that, for me, a 'higher power' was not what worked. I had religion crammed down my throat (and beaten into my body) my entire childhood. A large part of what I despise are the teachings that we sinners are completely at the mercy of Satan and our own weak souls and without begging for the intervention of God/a higher power, we are doomed. I refuse to believe that I am that pitiful. But that's just my personal viewpoint. It does however, prevent me from using 12 step programs that require turning yourself over to a higher power.

Oh yes, I am an alcoholic. I didn't have one more drink at the bar before closing time, oh no. I had to take a 12 pack home with me because I wasn't done until I could no longer stand up or I passed out. Not just on Saturday nights, mind you. Every single night. For years. I drank to numb myself and to feel good/happy/attractive. As long as I was the life of the party and totally stewed, I never had to face my inner demons.

I was not implying that everyone should do (or be able to do) what I did. Not at all. Each person has his/her own pathway to the desired result. But I don't see why the efforts of someone who did it differently than the standard AA should be minimalized and trivialized.

Stormie

[Chewbaccus]

I understand Storm, and agree. I'm sorry if you thought I was including you or singling you out. You made it pretty clear that you understood what worked for you doesn't necessarily do so for others. It's just that people throw the word "alcoholic" around so easily, it cheapens it. Between that and elements of the program geting sniped at...every so often, my back gets up about the whole thing and I need to dust off the soapbox.

[Trilby]

I'm an alcoholic. I'm not some woman who took a tipple too much of Chardonnay one evening and wobbled home on my high heels. That said, I don't need to qualify myself to you or anyone else here. I've been to AA meetings for 20 years. What have I found in those hallowed rooms? 13 steppers,(and guys with 10-15 years sobriety should really knock that shit out) thieves, moochers, liars, braggarts, people who are secretly still using but come to meetings and act like they're Bill W's best friend. AA works for you? Goody. I doesn't work for everyone. There's nothing like an AA meeting that makes me want to go on a bender. Yeah, some people stay sober by going to those meetings, no doubt about that, but it never, ever worked for me and goddess knows I tried. The clubs here are clique-y and exclusive--old timers are NOT interested in newcomers (newcomers! The Most Important People Here!) but in maintaining their particular strangle-hold over particular meetings. I've seen guys with 20 years of sobriety refuse to let a newcomer, who desperately needed the sense of community and belonging and responsibility, take over the coffee making for the noon meeting. Just because you're sober doesn't mean you still aren't sick.

I did find the wharf rats at Dead concerts to be a loving, honest sober living community.

[Rock Steady]

Bri-- Yea, I've seen that stuff at AA too. I've seen the good and the bad. In the bay area it is very clique-y, some of these people form their kingdoms and meeting politics can get ugly; they violate the 12 principals reguarly.

But there are some quality people in the mix too. I just got a phone call from a guy I haven't seen in two years. We compared notes on our job situations and he wished me luck in my search. No agenda for his call, just checking in.

But, really, I had to leave AA because I was getting new relationships that generated new resentments to use 4th Step on. Kind of feeding on itself.

[Crimson Ghost]

Chewbaccus, my comments, yes, were snide. And they are directly related to my own personal experience with AA.

If it works for you, great.

However, in my line of work, I've seen events that make me think people don't understand that AA only works for those who want it to work.

I had a case where a father of three got plastered, shot his wife in the face with a 12 gauge, and then proceeded to butcher the corpse to consume it. When the kids came home from school, he slit their throats.

At the trial, this "pillar of society" claimed "temporary insanity due to overuse of intoxicants". The softhearted judge gave him 5 years of AA.

This fuck is walking the streets and having a good old time.

So excuse me if I take a dim view of AA.
As I said, if it works for you, great.
More power to you.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Crimson Ghost

Chewbaccus, my comments, yes, were snide. And they are directly related to my own personal experience with AA.

If it works for you, great.

However, in my line of work, I've seen events that make me think people don't understand that AA only works for those who want it to work.

I had a case where a father of three got plastered, shot his wife in the face with a 12 gauge, and then proceeded to butcher the corpse to consume it. When the kids came home from school, he slit their throats.

At the trial, this "pillar of society" claimed "temporary insanity due to overuse of intoxicants". The softhearted judge gave him 5 years of AA.

This fuck is walking the streets and having a good old time.

So excuse me if I take a dim view of AA.
As I said, if it works for you, great.
More power to you.

That guy is probably the 13-stepper I was talking about.

[Stormieweather]

So whats the 13th step then? Get drunk, do something horrific and then start all over with a clean slate at step 1?

I read things like this...

Originally Posted by Rock Steady

Anyone that took control themselves was not an alcoholic in the first place. It's hard to understand why someone else can't take control of themselves, by themselves. But that is the nature of the disease.

...and I start to doubt myself. I begin argueing that maybe I'm not really an alcoholic and I could control myself if I drank because, after all, some other people don't think I am.

My spouse went out of town recently and my first thought as I left the airport after dropping him off was, I could have a beer or two and no one would ever know!!

Then I come to my senses and realize I'm trying to delude myself. It doesn't matter what Rock Steady or people on a message board think, and it doesn't matter if my spouse never knows that I sneaked a drink or two. I don't want to lose my hard earned sobriety or my self respect. So I get busy with other things and try to stop thinking about what a cold beer or a Seabreeze tastes like. And I go another day without a drink.

Stormie

[Trilby]

Oh, a 13 stepper is someone with lots of sober time who comes on to the new and vulnerable and not-so sober people in order to have sex with them. They prey on them. It's very slimy behavior. If 13 stepping was merely relapsing and doing something horrible while drunk...well, I would be the world's greatest 13 stepper.

I wish I had your sensibility, stormie. You sound very solid in your recovery.

[limey]

Originally Posted by Crimson Ghost

... At the trial, this "pillar of society" claimed "temporary insanity due to overuse of intoxicants". The softhearted judge gave him 5 years of AA.

This fuck is walking the streets and having a good old time.

So excuse me if I take a dim view of AA.
As I said, if it works for you, great.
More power to you.

So why is that AA's fault? Sounds to me like the judge is the one who's at fault here.