Gay Marriage - Page 6

elSicomoro · 11-20-2003, 10:11 AM

It's that whole change factor...many people hate change, be it the way the icing is put on their donut, or allowing gays and lesbians to marry.

Pie · 11-20-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dagney
And by the way, for millions of Christians, the Bible IS law. You may not like it, but that's how they run their lives.

That may be how they run their lives, but I resent like hell their efforts to run MY life.

The Bible isn't my book. Why do I have to follow it?

- Pie

kerosene · 11-20-2003, 10:13 AM

Quote:

But, it is their choice and their business. Every individual on this planet deserves the right to be treated decently and not be discriminated against. They do not however have the right to demand that society accomodate there every demand.

Sure, nobody should expect the world to revolve around them. But as you stated in the first sentence gay people deserve a right to be treated decently and not be discriminated against, so if they want to marry, they should be allowed to marry.

blue · 11-20-2003, 10:17 AM

Gotta get the hell off this computer for awhile, but thanks for the interesting conversation....even you FNF ;-)

Been lurking here for awhile now, don't have alot of time to post, but this is a fascinating place and I love the topics & images & personalities.

Later

Dagney · 11-20-2003, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pie

That may be how they run their lives, but I resent like hell their efforts to run MY life.

The Bible isn't my book. Why do I have to follow it?

- Pie

Pie,

I wasn't saying that you did. I was commenting on the fact that someone said the Bible isn't law, when to many it is.

I don't live by the thing either, and resent when it's shoved down my throat. Unfortunately, the majority of people do live by those tenets, and take those beliefs with them into office when they're elected. (But that's a whole other issue)

Dagney

FileNotFound · 11-20-2003, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blue58

I knew you'd go there eventually, thing is I do tolerate and accept them. In fact I have no problem whatsoever with them or any group. This is about gay marriage, not discrimination.

But it IS discrimination when you do not allow people to legaly spend their lives with the one they love just because they are not of a diffrent sex.

And for what it's worth, no I don't really understand the gay lifestyle and will admit it. The sex part I can understand, the lifestyle and desire to spend your life with a same sex partner somewhat baffles me.

Well quite frankly, the idea of a gay life style repulses me. As does the idea of a christian life style, but thats my personal opinion and I don't care if the person is a gay christian, I'll treat them just like I would treat a straight atheist unless they give me a valid reason not to. Nobody is asking you to love or understand gays, just treat them equaly.

But, it is their choice and their business. Every individual on this planet deserves the right to be treated decently and not be discriminated against. They do not however have the right to demand that society accomodate there every demand.

Would you have said " They do not however have the right to demand that society accomodate there every demand." when people spoke against slavery and mistreatment of the blacks?

How is this different. All they want is equal treatment. Is that too much to ask for? You're trying to offer them "Something else" that's "The same thing". How is that different from "Seperate but equal" that was tried to segreate the colored population. We KNOW that doesn't work. We KNOW that it's not right. Why do you insist on it?

Happy Monkey · 11-20-2003, 11:16 AM

Here's a comparison between the arguments against gay marriage and the arguments against interracial marriage.

Are there any arguments against gay marriage that weren't used against interracial marriage?

wolf · 11-20-2003, 11:19 AM

What a lot of the debates on gay "marriage" miss is this ...

Marriage is a religious contract that has also been given civil status. (for a modern example ... consider the necessity for observant catholics to pursue an anullment in addition to the civil divorce, or jews to obtain a get.)

As a religious contract is is defined and established as a union between a man and a woman.

I happen to agree on this one with Blue58 (hi blue) ... find some other word(s) to describe it, but it's not "marriage."

Civil Union fine ... and I'm also cool with the notion of civil union being open to heterosexual couples as well. I'm not objecting to a formalizing of the relationship, just to the use of the term.

FileNotFound · 11-20-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
What a lot of the debates on gay "marriage" miss is this ...

Marriage is a religious contract that has also been given civil status. (for a modern example ... consider the necessity for observant catholics to pursue an anullment in addition to the civil divorce, or jews to obtain a get.)

As a religious contract is is defined and established as a union between a man and a woman.

I happen to agree on this one with Blue58 (hi blue) ... find some other word(s) to describe it, but it's not "marriage."

Civil Union fine ... and I'm also cool with the notion of civil union being open to heterosexual couples as well. I'm not objecting to a formalizing of the relationship, just to the use of the term.

Marriage WAS a religious contract. Yet overtime the meaning has shifted. My parents are married yet no religious ceremony ever took place.

Civil Union sounds like something friends have. Marriage seems to be something reserved for couples in love.

I think saying that heterosexuals can get married, and also civil unions while gays can ONLY have civil unions is once again, unfair treatment.

Now all of a sudden it's become piss easy to invalidate all the benifits of gay marriages. Just make it so that only "married" couples can file jointly for taxes, addopt kids etc while civil union is just that...bs.

It's like the segregation all over again "Oh yes, you're black so you CAN ride the public bus but you must sit in the back. You're white, you too can ride the bus, you can sit in the front, well also the back if you like...but thats where 'they' sit..."

Happy Monkey · 11-20-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
What a lot of the debates on gay "marriage" miss is this ...

Marriage is a religious contract that has also been given civil status. (for a modern example ... consider the necessity for observant catholics to pursue an anullment in addition to the civil divorce, or jews to obtain a get.)

As a religious contract is is defined and established as a union between a man and a woman.

There are many religions, some of which perform gay marriages. Why shouldn't those couples get a civil marriage license? Just because YOUR religion doesn't like it doesn't make it a nonreligious marriage.

Also note that it is NOT necessary for catholics to get an anullment or for jews to get a get in order to get a civil divorce. There are TWO independent types of marriage. Religious marriage can exist or be dissolved according to the rules of a particular religion, but it won't affect the civil marriage unless you file the paperwork. Likewise, you can file the paperwork for a civil marriage or divorce, but if you don't follow your religion's procedures and requirements, they won't recognise it - and you may be kicked out.

One more time: This debate is only on the subject of civil marriage. None of this affects religious marriage in any way. "Civil union" is not any more acceptable than any other "separate but equal" law, unless all other civil marriages are also renamed to the less "offensive" term.

juju · 11-20-2003, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
If children being raised by single parents turn out just fine, then how can adding another parent of the same sex possibly change the results for the worse?

Quote:

Originally posted by slang
It shows a parental relationship of 2 same sexes, without a opposite sex influence. Having 2 daddys or 2 mommies. I object and think it's confusing for kids.

Sure there are single moms and dads, but they're single or with the opposite sex partners. This tends to show a relationship of opposite sex partners and allows them to define their own sex role from a parental example. A man or a woman.

Undertoad was raised by his mother, with no "official" father figure. If he had been raised by a lesbian couple, the only difference in his upbringing would be that the mothers were lesbians. In both cases there is no official father. I see no difference in male influence at all.

What you seem to be saying here is that you think it will promote homosexuality in children. Is that what you object to?

juju · 11-20-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beestie
Lesbian couples can have children. Male couples (duh) cannot so they have to adopt.

I hate to create another post for such a small point, but I thought I'd mention that gay men can have children. All that is needed is for said man to have sex with a woman.

warch · 11-20-2003, 02:09 PM

Its interesting that so many people find loving gay relationships "repulsive". Maybe theyve never seen one. Strong and caring relationships give me hope. As the injustice and inequality becomes more visible, it will change. Society will demand it.

The separation of terms, marriage vs civil union...It is classic segregation tactic.
But I'll take the civil union if it affords a crack at equal rights. As fears subside, the hangup on terms will errode. Marriage is marriage. Families are families. Parents are parents. Home is home.

Sun_Sparkz · 11-20-2003, 07:30 PM

in realtion to children being brought up by 2 fathers, i dont see how this would be a huge problem. Its not like the gay couple who gain custody of the child will be performing explicit sexual acts in front of the child just because they are gay (straight parents dont)

I was raised by my father and became a daughter figure to a lot of his mates but i have had no female figure, being a female i wont say that some things were a little difficult to talk about, but nothing we couldnt overcome and eventually bring us closer. i have had little to no contact with my mother, and my dad has never remarried.

I feel like ive had the best upbringing i could ever have had, i'm the biggest daddies girl and i think im really well adjusted. I have great relationships with both males and females, and i have turned out just as girly as the ballerina next door did. i wouldnt change a thing. some of my friends, and friends mothers would express how worried they were about me when i was younger because i didnt have a mother around, but honestly, if you have NEVER had one around, you really dont notice at all. you adapt. it becomes NORMAL to you.

I'm proud to have been raised by my dad and his mates with no female intervention, and if i had of had even more dads, just as wonderful as mine is, then wouldn't that have been fantastic!! IMO anyway.

elSicomoro · 11-20-2003, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
All that is needed is for said man to have sex with a woman.

Problem: a gay man having sex with a woman would be like you having sex with a guy.

¿Entiende?

Of course, there's always in vitro...

View Poll Results: Should gay marriages be legal?
Yes	42	77.78%
No	9	16.67%
I can't decide.	3	5.56%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

11-20-2003, 11:16 AM	#82
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Interracial Marriage Here's a comparison between the arguments against gay marriage and the arguments against interracial marriage. Are there any arguments against gay marriage that weren't used against interracial marriage? __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

11-20-2003, 11:19 AM	#83
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	What a lot of the debates on gay "marriage" miss is this ... Marriage is a religious contract that has also been given civil status. (for a modern example ... consider the necessity for observant catholics to pursue an anullment in addition to the civil divorce, or jews to obtain a get.) As a religious contract is is defined and established as a union between a man and a woman. I happen to agree on this one with Blue58 (hi blue) ... find some other word(s) to describe it, but it's not "marriage." Civil Union fine ... and I'm also cool with the notion of civil union being open to heterosexual couples as well. I'm not objecting to a formalizing of the relationship, just to the use of the term. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

11-20-2003, 07:30 PM	#89
Sun_Sparkz Has Body Temperature Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: I come from a land downunder Posts: 1,105	in realtion to children being brought up by 2 fathers, i dont see how this would be a huge problem. Its not like the gay couple who gain custody of the child will be performing explicit sexual acts in front of the child just because they are gay (straight parents dont) I was raised by my father and became a daughter figure to a lot of his mates but i have had no female figure, being a female i wont say that some things were a little difficult to talk about, but nothing we couldnt overcome and eventually bring us closer. i have had little to no contact with my mother, and my dad has never remarried. I feel like ive had the best upbringing i could ever have had, i'm the biggest daddies girl and i think im really well adjusted. I have great relationships with both males and females, and i have turned out just as girly as the ballerina next door did. i wouldnt change a thing. some of my friends, and friends mothers would express how worried they were about me when i was younger because i didnt have a mother around, but honestly, if you have NEVER had one around, you really dont notice at all. you adapt. it becomes NORMAL to you. I'm proud to have been raised by my dad and his mates with no female intervention, and if i had of had even more dads, just as wonderful as mine is, then wouldn't that have been fantastic!! IMO anyway. __________________ We'll never be as young as we are right now

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11-20-2003, 10:11 AM	#76
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	It's that whole change factor...many people hate change, be it the way the icing is put on their donut, or allowing gays and lesbians to marry.

11-20-2003, 10:17 AM	#79
blue Operations Operative Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northern WI Posts: 739	Gotta get the hell off this computer for awhile, but thanks for the interesting conversation....even you FNF ;-) Been lurking here for awhile now, don't have alot of time to post, but this is a fascinating place and I love the topics & images & personalities. Later

11-20-2003, 02:09 PM	#88
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Its interesting that so many people find loving gay relationships "repulsive". Maybe theyve never seen one. Strong and caring relationships give me hope. As the injustice and inequality becomes more visible, it will change. Society will demand it. The separation of terms, marriage vs civil union...It is classic segregation tactic. But I'll take the civil union if it affords a crack at equal rights. As fears subside, the hangup on terms will errode. Marriage is marriage. Families are families. Parents are parents. Home is home.

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