What it means to be an American

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by primal muse

oh noes, you got me started.

the first american principle is greed. we are greedy by nature due to our second rate capitalistic ideals. we will push any one or anything out of the way without a second thought of the long term reprocussions to get what we want. (i.e. foriegn oil)

First of all our capitalistic ideals are not second rate. Nobody has better capitalistic ideals than we do. Secondly, I haven't pushed anybody out of the way to get foriegn oil since the '73 embargo. Don't confuse the government/industry with individual Americans.

secondly most americans are emphatically uneducated and far too trust worthy of our corrupt system. people are too ignorant to even see ro care that we're being conditioned on a mass scale daily to keep us fat, happy, and submissive.

Come back when you've got a wife and 6 kids, a mortgage and bills up to your ears. Then tell us how much you're worrying and what you're doing to straighten out the system.

which brings me to my third and final. americans are some of the most gluttonous, lazy creatures in exsistance. we are unhealthy both mentally (but hey why not just pop a pill) and physically (gastric bypass is a quick fix).

What do you live forever? Why? So you can tell other people they should be doing what you think is best for them?

we expect big brother to keep us safe just as long as we dont have to lift a finger or figure anything out for ourselves.

Isn't that what we pay them for?.

i mean no offense to any one remotely patriotic on this forum but plz, wake up.

No, you wake up.
If you don't like the was this country operates you've got 2 choices. Either find someplace else to live or change it...I honestly suggest the latter.
On the other hand, if you just want to tell me what to think, how to feel and how to live......well, let's just say, Homey don't play dat.

[capnhowdy]

Damn, P.M.

Cool..... now that you can but your own beer w/out a fake ID you can tell all the rest of us idiots how to run the country.

If I were you I'd move to one of those countries over ther somewhere that has already adapted the perfect government that you have seemed to have masterminded.

IMO, there's only one thing worse than a commy bastard.... & thats a commy bastard living in MY country and pissing and moaning 24/7. Sheesh.....

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by capnhowdy

Cool..... now that you can but your own beer w/out a fake ID you can tell all the rest of us idiots how to run the country.

But he's been "mad for fucking years"!

[jonesieQ]

[quote=xoxoxoBruce]First of all our capitalistic ideals are not second rate. Nobody has better capitalistic ideals than we do.

Maybe a comma between Primal's "capitalistic" and "ideals" should be added. But insisting that we have first rate "capitalistic ideals" isn't exactly a compliment. Our current form of capitalism, laissez-faire, wreaks a lot of damage over time...we've been witnessing it since the late 70's...the sudden need to change from a manufacturing base to a service base simply because industry had no restrictions on taking our manufacturing overseas for cheaper overhead and higher dividends to stockholders. Careers, families, towns, small businesses, schools, neighborhoods, regions, were devastated by this. And now we have a huge income gap and a privileged class, a large number of medically uninsured, personal debt to income ratios that are frightening, no job security, unprecedented levels of emotional and physical dysfunction, etc...it's awful. Our government hasn't been doing the job they're being paid to do. Instead they're trying to cure our (their) ills by becoming Big Brother.

The problem I think Primal was noting is that instead of fighting back, many Americans have become complacent and apathetic. A good point to make is that it's really difficult to fight back...the vortex that this economic system has us sucked into is powerful and disempowering. There's no time to fight, and little energy. (Exactly what you said about 'having a mortgage, six kids...', etc.) The economics we live by have us hogtied, and industry and finance know that. But something's got to break soon...Americans typically will only tolerate so much.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by jonesieQ

the vortex that this economic system has us sucked into is powerful and disempowering. There's no time to fight, and little energy.

I don't doubt it one bit. I'm in the middle of this book, Nickel and Dimed and it has really opened my eyes as to why people are trapped in low wage jobs, not to mention why no one has time or energy to stand up for anything, anymore. I have no doubt the system is this way by design, either.

[xoxoxoBruce]

[quote=jonesieQ]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

First of all our capitalistic ideals are not second rate. Nobody has better capitalistic ideals than we do.

Maybe a comma between Primal's "capitalistic" and "ideals" should be added. But insisting that we have first rate "capitalistic ideals" isn't exactly a compliment. ~snip

Duh.
He may not like capitalistic ideals but can't acuse them of being second rate ones.

[jonesieQ]

Never ceases to amaze me how many people WILL puff up over our "capitalistic ideals"...from Rand to Trump to Cheney...don't know you yet Bruce...and it's tough to tell these days between sarcasm and heartfelt belief. Now, ain't that a sad statement?

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Come back when you've got a wife and 6 kids, a mortgage and bills up to your ears.

Sounds like the definition of selfish...or ignorant...or both. After the third kid you should know why they're happening.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by jonesieQ

snip~ Our government hasn't been doing the job they're being paid to do. Instead they're trying to cure our (their) ills by becoming Big Brother.

Now you're totally wrong here. The government is doing exactly what they are being paid to do....by those who pay the most.....to benefit those that pay the most. You surely don't think that piddling few thousand dollars you kick in counts, do you?
Perhaps you mean they aren't doing the job they were elected to do.

The problem I think Primal was noting is that instead of fighting back, many Americans have become complacent and apathetic. A good point to make is that it's really difficult to fight back...the vortex that this economic system has us sucked into is powerful and disempowering. There's no time to fight, and little energy. (Exactly what you said about 'having a mortgage, six kids...', etc.) The economics we live by have us hogtied, and industry and finance know that. But something's got to break soon...Americans typically will only tolerate so much.

I despise people that discount opinions based on age, BUT...at 21, I don't think Primal has been rode hard and put up wet enough times to appreciate how hard life can be. I wanted to change the whole world at one time, then I wanted to just change the country. Now I'm happy to just keep my shit together.
I admire Primal's ideals and wish him all the luck in the world, changing the system, but nothing good will come of criticizing me and you.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I admire Primal's ideals and wish him all the luck in the world, changing the system, but nothing good will come of criticizing me and you.

If you recall, at 21 people like you look a lot like part of The System, Bruce. ;-)

[primal muse]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

First of all our capitalistic ideals are not second rate. Nobody has better capitalistic ideals than we do. Secondly, I haven't pushed anybody out of the way to get foriegn oil since the '73 embargo. Don't confuse the government/industry with individual Americans. Come back when you've got a wife and 6 kids, a mortgage and bills up to your ears. Then tell us how much you're worrying and what you're doing to straighten out the system. What do you live forever? Why? So you can tell other people they should be doing what you think is best for them?Isn't that what we pay them for?. No, you wake up.
If you don't like the was this country operates you've got 2 choices. Either find someplace else to live or change it...I honestly suggest the latter.
On the other hand, if you just want to tell me what to think, how to feel and how to live......well, let's just say, Homey don't play dat.

where in that breif paragraph did i imply that you were spposed to think the way i do?
i really dont have the time to dignify your ignorance as it might take me all day.

let me guess, youre also republican?

and if our capitilistic ideasl arent second rate then how come our country is in such deep debt to other countries that its frightening?

[primal muse]

Originally Posted by capnhowdy

Damn, P.M.

Cool..... now that you can but your own beer w/out a fake ID you can tell all the rest of us idiots how to run the country.

If I were you I'd move to one of those countries over ther somewhere that has already adapted the perfect government that you have seemed to have masterminded.

IMO, there's only one thing worse than a commy bastard.... & thats a commy bastard living in MY country and pissing and moaning 24/7. Sheesh.....

i may only be 21 but i am well versed in politics among other things. just because im not antiquated does not mean i do not care to uphold some form of political awareness.
and older people like you are part of what is wrong with this country, please leave your 1950's leave it to beaver mentality at the door, kthnx.
youre happy as long as uncle sam is patting you on the head, keeping your wallet fat, and shoving food down your 9 kids throat. the real american dream.
there is no american dream, which is why its sad that people like you bought it hook line and sinker.
meanwhile the majority of this country is destitute, without any form of healthcare because they cant afford health insurance, on the streets, starving etc.
pull your head out of your ass and look around. every principal this country was founded on was to further the rich man.

isnt capitalism great?

[primal muse]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

But he's been "mad for fucking years"!

if you knew anything about good music you might know that its from the beginning of breathe by pink floyd.
edit: and im lacking a certain appendige that would qualify me as a "he"

[primal muse]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Now you're totally wrong here. The government is doing exactly what they are being paid to do....by those who pay the most.....to benefit those that pay the most. You surely don't think that piddling few thousand dollars you kick in counts, do you?
Perhaps you mean they aren't doing the job they were elected to do.
I despise people that discount opinions based on age, BUT...at 21, I don't think Primal has been rode hard and put up wet enough times to appreciate how hard life can be. I wanted to change the whole world at one time, then I wanted to just change the country. Now I'm happy to just keep my shit together.
I admire Primal's ideals and wish him all the luck in the world, changing the system, but nothing good will come of criticizing me and you.

you get an a for being totally presumptuous. ive probably faced more trial in my 21 years than you have in your entire life time.

[Ibby]

Mellow out, y'all. PM, I'm relatively new here, but I do know that nobody here got where they are now easily. Er, except maybe me.

I've been mad for fuckin' years, absolutely years, been over the edge for yoinks, been workin me buns off for bands...

The song, however, is Speak To Me. Up until the music starts, it's Speak To Me, THEN it becomes Breathe.