Finding the Devil in New Orleans

[Happy Monkey]

Here's an interview with the mayor of New Orleans.

[dar512]

Originally Posted by tw

Both quotes invent straw men<snip>

Note to tw. Learn to read English. 'Here's the other thing' means I'm changing the topic slightly.
Besides which -

Originally Posted by tw

Unfortunately too many want to be politically correct rather than ask the hard and necessary questions such as 'why did the dikes break so easily',

This sure looks like you advocated spending more money on the levees to me.

[Hobbs]

Originally Posted by tw

FEMA knew that 100,000 people in New Orleans had no means of getting out of town .... and FEMA did nothing.

It's FEMAs job to forcast things like this, that's their job, the reason why they exist. However, I don't think that anyone predicted this could be as bad as it is. I think everyone is overwelmed right now. No one knows where to go or who to help first. There are so many fronts to attack, rescue, law enforcement, evacuation, recovery. Someone once told me that in planning for emergency responses for things such as this, that organizations such as the city, county, and/or FEMA puts into place what's called a resonable or acceptable amount of loss. What I think this means is they know they can't save everyone or handle every situation so they concentrate the resources they have into certain areas to be better effective as opposed to spreading the resource thin and not being effective anywhere. I haven't been able to confirm this becuase I heard this second hand a while ago.

[wolf]

FEMA is a federal agency that cannot act until told to. Up until that point, it was the city, the parishes, and, if actived by the Governor, LEMA that were in charge.

They maximize survivability, not ensure it.

[tw]

Originally Posted by tw
Unfortunately too many want to be politically correct rather than ask the hard and necessary questions such as 'why did the dikes break so easily',

Originally Posted by dar512

This sure looks like you advocated spending more money on the levees to me.

The obvious and accurate answer to that question, "why did the dikes break so easily". Because water was higher than the dikes were designed for - as predicted. I did not answer the question because (and I was mistaken) the answer was woefully obvious. Furthermore where the dike broke, resources to finish the reconstruction were reportedly held back for two years. The dike sat unfinished for two years. Something about needing money elsewhere (Iraq).

Further information. Once water gets over that type of dike, earthen material in some places washes away quickly. Just another part to the answer of, "why did the dikes break so easily".

I find it appalling you would immediately assume the GM mentality of 'throw more money at it'. Solution starts by asking product oriented questions. What can it do? What was it designed for? Was it properly constructed? In this case, dikes broke because the water was too high - as was predicted for any storm above Category 3. As what everyone except our illustrious leader seems to have known.

BTW, do you think New Orleans residents pay for those dikes? Of course not. We do. Dike construction and enhancements cause no tax increases in New Orleans. New dikes mean a larger federal debt - sell more bonds. Money. Something that an MBA throws like a grenade to solve problems. Money should have never appeared in your answer to "why did the dikes break so easily".

[tw]

Originally Posted by Hobbs

It's FEMAs job to forcast things like this, that's their job, the reason why they exist. However, I don't think that anyone predicted this could be as bad as it is.

FEMA had just run an exercise (maybe one year earlier) exactly about a major hurricane swamping New Orleans. That is why FEMA knew up to 100,000 people in New Orleans would have no means to leave the city. FEMA's own studies say that the flooding in New Orleans should have been much worse - faster, more destructive, deadlier. FEMA even claimed to be ready for a disaster that was predicted days in advance.

FEMA claimed they had everything propositioned. They had been authorized days before the hurricane to provide all necessary support. It turns out FEMA has insufficient food to feed the victims. Insufficient warehouse space to accept and distribute the aid. No transportation to help 100,000 leave. FEMA has even abandon victims in the Convention Center. FEMA is not even feeding people in the Superdome. Just another fact that Michael Brown, Director of FEMA preferred to avoid.

Koppel was quite blunt. Koppel said you even bring in flatbed trucks to carry the people out if you must. Micheal Brown refused to respond.

When 10,000 people in the Superdome became 20,000, then FEMA was surprised? FEMAs own studies said up to 100,000 would not be able to leave New Orleans. But then facts don't seem to have relevance to FEMAs response - that they claimed was ready well in advance.

The events in New Orleans are no where near as bad as what FEMAs own studies expected. And yet still FEMA is apparently completely overwhelmed. Knowing they were overwhelmed, FEMA did nothing to request massive assistance from the military and other government agencies until, well .... do you remember the American response to the Tsunami? How many days did it take this administration to finally decide to start aid flowing? In disasters, aid must be moving in hours. Especially when Katrina's attack was forecast so many days in advance - as a category 5 storm. That means leaders must make decisions this minute - not six days later. That means leaders must not be in denial.

Koppel's interview of Michael Brown was telling. FEMA was still in the planning stage five days after the hurricane. People start dying on day three. You could see Ted Koppel seething as he calmly kept asking embarrassing questions. He had to ask some repeatedly because Michael Brown, Director of FEMA, was avoiding most answers.

Any leader who did not predict things would be this bad must have his ass up his ass - be that inverted. A category 5 hurricane striking a bowl only built for category 3 storms? It's a no brainer. Anyone who makes excuses for such leaders must also be in denial.

At what point does a Cellar dweller admit that "85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management"? The devil is in the details in New Orleans - such as a president who says no one expected the levees to be breached. No problem. George Jr is going there personally to fix things - just like he did Iraq?

To think these same people worried about where Clinton's penis had been.

[Elspode]

It is the way that people like Clinton have been using their penises that brought the wrath of God down upon the Sodomites in New Orleans in the first place, doncha know?

I heard an interview on NPR yesterday wherein Carl Castle was interviewing the head of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff. Although I didn't hear the Brown interview, it sounds like it was pretty similar to the one I heard.

Castle was asking the plain, obvious questions such as "Why is it taking so long to get help there?", and Chertoff *really* was obviously put off, and couldn't come up with even a party-line, pat answer for most of them.

I think these guys were all too busy playing the oil futures market to pay attention to their jobs.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Elspode

It is the way that people like Clinton have been using their penises that brought the wrath of God down upon the Sodomites in New Orleans in the first place, doncha know?

I'm actually a little surprised that people like Pat Robertson haven't come out publicly blaming this hurricane on the bead-tossers of Mardi Gras. I can imagine him saying New Orleans is getting what it deserves.

[Elspode]

The Conservative Christian South is his power base. If a big Hurricane had hit Atlantic City, you can bet he'd have said all that and more by now.

[Happy Monkey]

Plus, FEMA was directing some donations to Robertson's "Operation Blessing".

[tw]

from the NY Times of 2 Sept 2005
Troops Bring Food, Water and Promise of Order to New Orleans
H.L. Whitehorn, a spokesperson for the Louisiana state police, asserted that some New Orleans police officers were turning in their badges and leaving. He said that the officers that he personally knew who had resigned did so because they had lost everything in the storm and subsequent flood and saw no purpose in patrolling streets where they risked being shot by looters or thugs.

Why bother? Days later, the Federal government and FEMA (who was in operational control days previously) still sent no help. Just as in Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged", the most competent people simply walk off the job when the government and management (George Jr) are totally incompetent. Show me otherwise. Show me.

Review the facts. On Monday, George Jr promised - before TV cameras - that 400 trucks were enroute with food and water. ABC News repeatedly reported how people were not being fed in the Superdome and Convention Center for days. On Thursday in one of the few news reports that truly grilled the irresponsible, Ted Koppel asks Michael Brown, Director of FEMA, why that food still was not delivered. Brown said FEMA only discovered the problem on Thursday - three days later. Whereby Koppel asked him if FEMA ever listened to news reports. Brown also did not answer that question. ABC News and numerous others were reporting for days that tens of thousands of people were not being fed or watered. FEMA did not know! More daming details. Go ahead you radical Bush supporters. Show me. Show me where any of this is in error.

Imagine how angry those Ted Koppel eyes were as he calmly interviewed a man who let so many Americans die. His name is Michael Brown. He works for George Jr. In a more responsible society and if they worked for corporations, then these two men would be indicted for criminal neglect.

So when did food finally arrive? Today - Friday. IOW it took another day after FEMA 'learned of the problem' for food to be delivered? Show me where that demonstrates competence at the highest levels of government? Show me. What was President Cheney doing all this time?

Now you tell me. People who got no water, no rescue, had no way out, and were sometimes sitting next to dead bodies; some began firing weapons. This even got attention of the Cellar where posters asked why? Why? How many more days were these people suppose to wait wihtout food and water as the mental midget president demanded? At what point do they decide they were lied to? Ironic. 400 trucks that were enroute with food must have been coming from Maine and Washington. It took four days!! So food finally arrived just as the President arrived for his press photographs. Sarcastic coincidence? The president is talking about rebuilding Trent Lott's porch while people were still dying.

Let's not forget those tarmacs at Louis Armstrong International airport (in adjacent Kenner LA) chock full of C5A and C17 transport planes with food, water, and medical supplies. Oh. The planes were never dispatched.

Show me. Show me where any of this is incorrect. If I told you this story two weeks ago, you would say it is only fiction. The incompetence is that egregious.

BTW where did Laura Bush go for her press photographs? Lafayette LA - a town I watched on Weatherbug as not one tree fell down. But then the Bushes hope you don't know that little fact. Its all about the spin - screw the people. Cheney knows they are not Republicans. Just too many coincidences.

[tw]

BTW ABC News at this minute shows thousands of people beneath Interstate 10 underpass without food and water. Periodically, three or five choppers would arrive at once and depart. Delivery of food and water? No. These were the people rescued. Some had sat there for days without food and water. These were the resuced ones. Can you imagine what the thousands of still unrescued people are going through?

People still unfed, without sanitation, without food. Air Force one came and left - withoug delivering food and water. But the president got his press photographs.

BTW, Jesse Jackson suggested this was racism. Can you cite facts that prove otherwise?

But let's not forget the hundreds of C5A, C17, C-141, and C-130 aircraft crowding the tarmacs in Louis Armstrong International delivering supplies. Oh. According to a LA Congressman, the military says they never received a request. Nobody in the administration asked for help - to stop people from dying? Maybe Cheney forgot to tell George Jr what to do?

But show me. Show me where any of this is incorrect.

Well, tw, I'm with you on this one. The entire thing just makes me sick at heart. All of it - from the refusal to spend money keeping the levee's repaired and pumping stations in good order to Bush whining that "WE never thought the levee's would fail," in the face of that catastrophic National Weather Service Forecast, to the incompetent and non-existant rescue efforts.

There you have it, folks - life in the US under Junior's Republican government. Welcome to the third world! Frankly, I think what this country needs is a nice asassination or, at the very least, an impeachment.

[Elspode]

This'll teach those fuckers to donate to the Republican candidates next time, huh?

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by glatt

I'm actually a little surprised that people like Pat Robertson haven't come out publicly blaming this hurricane on the bead-tossers of Mardi Gras. I can imagine him saying New Orleans is getting what it deserves.

I saw a brief thing on CNN where the president of Venezuela or some such was offering to send food himself (since obviously we couldn't get it there), and money, and people to help.

You know, the same guy that PAT ROBERTSON wanted to ASSASINATE 3 months ago? Came out and said we should assassinate him??

(I'm spelling this out to emphasize my point)

WHAT THE FUCK???

Please please please, everyone on the planet, do NOT judge or make opinions about all Christians based on this whack job, ok? He does NOT speak for LOTS and LOTS of Christians. I promise.