Well, hate's now a crime, even if you don't do anything...

Troubleshooter · 02-20-2005, 04:07 PM

I'm not a big fan of the modern evangelicals, but this may be really interesting to watch.

Whole thing here .

"In the fall, Philadelphia police charged Marcavage with various misdemeanors, as well as felony counts of riot, criminal conspiracy, and -- most controversially -- "ethnic" intimidation, Pennsylvania's version of a hate crime. Homosexuals, as of 2002, are given protection under the state's Ethnic Intimidation Act."

richlevy · 02-20-2005, 09:46 PM

My understanding of free speech is that limits can be set on time place and manner. This is why we now have 'free speech zones'. IMO, the people who think this guy should be allowed to use a bullhorn during someone elses event had better understand that they are going to allow gay rights groups to use a bullhorn at the next Christian Coalition rally.

The law is not supposed to censor content, just the manner in which the content is delivered.

slang · 02-20-2005, 10:09 PM

I think if that dumbass showed up at anything that I was attending and shouted the speaker down with a bullhorn.....I might commit a real "hate" crime.

Beestie · 02-20-2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

Homosexuals, as of 2002, are given protection under the state's Ethnic Intimidation Act."

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought we were all entitled to equal protection under the law. Making an act a bigger crime (via harsher penalties) when commited against a member of a certain group relative to someone not a member of that group constitutes, imo, unequal protection under the law and, therefore, is unconstitutional. Radar? Anyone? Bueller?

xoxoxoBruce · 02-20-2005, 10:40 PM

Well we are all equal....but pigs are more equal than others.

Elspode · 02-20-2005, 11:09 PM

Around here, we are frequently exposed to that holy fellow, Fred Phelps . This is a guy who sponsors demonstrations at the funerals of AIDS victims, screaming through a bullhorn at the greiving families and friends.

I've seen them picketing at a Melissa Etheridge concert, and heard countless tales of their psychopathic religious fervor.

There's a very, very special room in Fred's Hell for him and his ilk. He's getting up in years, and I hope to be able to attend a protest at his funeral...silent, reverent, and thankful that he's gone, and hoping that his brainwashed adult children won't be as effective at spreading his vile version of God as he has been.

iamthewalrus109 · 02-21-2005, 11:08 AM

With the 60's social movements, great strides have been made to give dispensation to minority groups, stemming from the African-American civil rights movement. Once it is done in one place it extends to groups of every shade and orientation. Accordingly, the trend has been for federal and district court judges to legislate from the bench, viewing legislative bodies to slow and bureuacratic to deal effectively with social issues. This trend has lead to a new legal oligarchy, one that sometimes countervenes the Constitution. One has to ask themselves, "Is this trend, interpertation, and tweaking of American Constitutional law, justified?" This includes quota programs, and welfare criteria.

-Walrus

xoxoxoBruce · 02-21-2005, 05:52 PM

If I call a white man a nigger, is that a hate crime? If so, against whom? Is it any different than calling him a pig or an asshole?

Now what if it's a black man? Nigger, pig, asshole...I've truely insulted the man with any of those and would expect him to kick my ass.

Hate crime? Bullshit!

richlevy · 08-28-2005, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

Around here, we are frequently exposed to that holy fellow, Fred Phelps . This is a guy who sponsors demonstrations at the funerals of AIDS victims, screaming through a bullhorn at the greiving families and friends.

I've seen them picketing at a Melissa Etheridge concert, and heard countless tales of their psychopathic religious fervor.

There's a very, very special room in Fred's Hell for him and his ilk. He's getting up in years, and I hope to be able to attend a protest at his funeral...silent, reverent, and thankful that he's gone, and hoping that his brainwashed adult children won't be as effective at spreading his vile version of God as he has been.

Well, Fred has been at it again.

Quote:

The Rev. Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist in Kansas, contends that American soldiers are being killed in Iraq as vengeance from God for protecting a country that harbors gays. The church, which is not affiliated with a larger denomination, is made up mostly of Phelps' children, grandchildren and in-laws.

The church members carried signs and shouted things such as "God hates fags" and "God hates you."

About 10 church members protested near Smyrna United Methodist Church and nearly 20 stood outside the National Guard Armory in Ashland City. Members have demonstrated at other soldier funerals across the nation

It's too bad Pat Roberston called off the assassination squad, maybe he could have redirected them to Kansas. Phelps is an embarrassment to evangelicals (or is he a Pentacostal?), Christians, deists, and the human race in general.

Maybe we'll all get lucky and Phelps will tape an endorsement for the school board members who voted for Intelligent Design.

Elspode · 08-28-2005, 10:39 AM

Phelps is more than an embarassment. He is a certified, card carrying abomination. He is no more human than this keyboard I'm typing on. Ptui!

Radar · 08-31-2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought we were all entitled to equal protection under the law. Making an act a bigger crime (via harsher penalties) when commited against a member of a certain group relative to someone not a member of that group constitutes, imo, unequal protection under the law and, therefore, is unconstitutional. Radar? Anyone? Bueller?

As much as I can't stand scumbags like the jackass harassing people for being gay, or racist pricks, if they're not free, none of us is. We're only as free as the most offensive of us is free to say what he wants.

I am against all "hate crimes" legislation. It puts the government in the position of being "thought police". It's incredibly stupid to punish motives. You should punish the crime the same way regardless of motive. A man who kills an old woman because he's a psycho, is guilty of the exact same crime as a man who kills the same old woman because she's Jewish and the same crime as that of a man who killed the woman because he wanted her purse. The punishment should be the same in all cases. It should be the same crime regardless of the occupation of the victim or the criminal....say a cop, firefighter, or the president vs. being an office worker, burger flipper, or ditch digger.

Hate is not a crime. People have the right to be stupid. Even completely stupid, pathetic, worthless losers like nicotinegun should be free to be stupid, free to hate, and free to act like an asshole. On the other hand, we are all free to ignore blithering idiots of his ilk.

NICOTINEGUN · 09-01-2005, 12:07 AM

This is classic-"if they're not free, none of us is." LOL, I am laughing so hard. Thanks, Radar. Keep them coming. This is classic. The guys at the University are going to get a kick out of this. You actually used the word stupid three times. I see that online GED is working like a charm. LOL, what a treat. Seriously, thank you. Ize likes yoor werds.

Radar · 02-22-2005, 12:06 AM

As much as I hate to agree with the intolerant scumbag assholes harassing gay people, ALL OF AMERICA IS A FREE SPEECH ZONE!!! We don't require the permission of government to peacefully gather on public grounds, and a cop has no legitimate authority to tell us to break it up or to leave. Government has no grounds to censor the kind of message or the method of delivery.

All violent crimes are hate crimes. And hate crime legislation is a farse. It's an attempt to turn the government into the thought police. The legitimate role of government is to punish crimes, not motives. We have the right to hate anyone we want.

There is no difference in a crime where a man kills an old lady because he wants her purse, and in a crime where he kills her because she's Jewish. In either case she's equally dead. The crime is killing her, not hating her.

Homosexuality is not a race or an ethnic group, but it is something you're born as every bit as much as a race or ethic group. Being gay is like being black. You're born that way or you're not and nothing anyone says to the contrary has any validity.

Troubleshooter · 02-22-2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

Being gay is like being black. You're born that way or you're not and nothing anyone says to the contrary has any validity.

Hey, where's Sycamore when you need him?

xoxoxoBruce · 02-23-2005, 09:14 PM

Why? You need a gay take on this?

02-20-2005, 04:07 PM	#1
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	Well, hate's now a crime, even if you don't do anything... I'm not a big fan of the modern evangelicals, but this may be really interesting to watch. Whole thing here . "In the fall, Philadelphia police charged Marcavage with various misdemeanors, as well as felony counts of riot, criminal conspiracy, and -- most controversially -- "ethnic" intimidation, Pennsylvania's version of a hate crime. Homosexuals, as of 2002, are given protection under the state's Ethnic Intimidation Act." __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

02-20-2005, 09:46 PM	#2
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	My understanding of free speech is that limits can be set on time place and manner. This is why we now have 'free speech zones'. IMO, the people who think this guy should be allowed to use a bullhorn during someone elses event had better understand that they are going to allow gay rights groups to use a bullhorn at the next Christian Coalition rally. The law is not supposed to censor content, just the manner in which the content is delivered. __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama

02-20-2005, 10:40 PM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Well we are all equal....but pigs are more equal than others. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-20-2005, 11:09 PM	#6
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Around here, we are frequently exposed to that holy fellow, Fred Phelps . This is a guy who sponsors demonstrations at the funerals of AIDS victims, screaming through a bullhorn at the greiving families and friends. I've seen them picketing at a Melissa Etheridge concert, and heard countless tales of their psychopathic religious fervor. There's a very, very special room in Fred's Hell for him and his ilk. He's getting up in years, and I hope to be able to attend a protest at his funeral...silent, reverent, and thankful that he's gone, and hoping that his brainwashed adult children won't be as effective at spreading his vile version of God as he has been. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

02-21-2005, 11:08 AM	#7
iamthewalrus109 High Propagandist Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 111	Unequal protection under the law With the 60's social movements, great strides have been made to give dispensation to minority groups, stemming from the African-American civil rights movement. Once it is done in one place it extends to groups of every shade and orientation. Accordingly, the trend has been for federal and district court judges to legislate from the bench, viewing legislative bodies to slow and bureuacratic to deal effectively with social issues. This trend has lead to a new legal oligarchy, one that sometimes countervenes the Constitution. One has to ask themselves, "Is this trend, interpertation, and tweaking of American Constitutional law, justified?" This includes quota programs, and welfare criteria. -Walrus

02-20-2005, 10:09 PM	#3
slang St Petersburg, Florida Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,423	I think if that dumbass showed up at anything that I was attending and shouted the speaker down with a bullhorn.....I might commit a real "hate" crime.

02-21-2005, 05:52 PM	#8
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	If I call a white man a nigger, is that a hate crime? If so, against whom? Is it any different than calling him a pig or an asshole? Now what if it's a black man? Nigger, pig, asshole...I've truely insulted the man with any of those and would expect him to kick my ass. Hate crime? Bullshit! __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-28-2005, 10:39 AM	#10
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Phelps is more than an embarassment. He is a certified, card carrying abomination. He is no more human than this keyboard I'm typing on. Ptui! __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

09-01-2005, 12:07 AM	#12
NICOTINEGUN Resident President Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 82	if they're not free, none of us is-this is the product of your education? This is classic-"if they're not free, none of us is." LOL, I am laughing so hard. Thanks, Radar. Keep them coming. This is classic. The guys at the University are going to get a kick out of this. You actually used the word stupid three times. I see that online GED is working like a charm. LOL, what a treat. Seriously, thank you. Ize likes yoor werds. __________________ Hurricanes are racist!

02-22-2005, 12:06 AM	#13
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	As much as I hate to agree with the intolerant scumbag assholes harassing gay people, ALL OF AMERICA IS A FREE SPEECH ZONE!!! We don't require the permission of government to peacefully gather on public grounds, and a cop has no legitimate authority to tell us to break it up or to leave. Government has no grounds to censor the kind of message or the method of delivery. All violent crimes are hate crimes. And hate crime legislation is a farse. It's an attempt to turn the government into the thought police. The legitimate role of government is to punish crimes, not motives. We have the right to hate anyone we want. There is no difference in a crime where a man kills an old lady because he wants her purse, and in a crime where he kills her because she's Jewish. In either case she's equally dead. The crime is killing her, not hating her. Homosexuality is not a race or an ethnic group, but it is something you're born as every bit as much as a race or ethic group. Being gay is like being black. You're born that way or you're not and nothing anyone says to the contrary has any validity. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin Last edited by Radar; 02-22-2005 at 12:09 AM.

02-23-2005, 09:14 PM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Why? You need a gay take on this? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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