Another story about appalling Muslim behavior in France

[Undertoad]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/950453.asp

An unnamed 15-year-old girl is assaulted by 18 boys, most of them not much older than she is. Sonia, also 15, is raped by seven of her supposed friends in the basement of her apartment building. Sheherezade, 11, is beaten and raped repeatedly over the course of a year by 12 different boys.

GRIM AS SUCH crimes may be, they’re becoming commonplace in the police ledgers of Paris, Lyons or Toulouse. The scene is almost always the same: the housing projects called cites on the outskirts of France’s major cities. Built by socially progressive governments in the 1960s, they’ve since been taken over by a generation of mostly Arab immigrants—impoverished, cut off from their native lands and culture, ghettoized. Here, young men try to rule their families and neighbors under a macho code drawn partly from Muslim tradition, partly from the violence and porn in the media. Women submit to men, they say. Good girls, good sisters, cover themselves and stay home. Otherwise they are putes, whores, who can be used and abused even if they say no.

Now, what can we do to comdemn this culture to the trash bin of history?

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Undertoad
Now, what can we do to comdemn this culture to the trash bin of history?

I think the last paragraph says it best:

The problem is that to help the women of the cites in the long run, you have to help the men—not only to find jobs and education, but to learn to live in Western societies. And precious little has been done about that.

[Tasneem Project]

You'd make a good gutter press journalist - highlighting Islam as the alleged source of this kind of behaviour. Let's face it, the Oklahoma bomber had links to Elohim City, but did anyone go around reporting this as 'appalling Christian behaviour in the USA'.

In spreading hate through distorting the truth in this way, you make yourself not much better than the criminals you condemn. Utter hypocracy, and shame on you!

[Undertoad]

McVeigh was a lone wacko. This is group behavior that is echoed in the countries and cultures that these assholes come from.

Your instinctive but misplaced respect for cultures not your own enables this kind of behavior. Shame on you.

[wolf]

I feel so dirty ...

Oh wait, no I don't.

I've been spending a lot of time dealing with a child whose only 'crime' was behaving like an american teenager (and not one of the bad, acting out, drinking, smoking weed, having sex kinds). Her father and brothers were physically abusive and in the process of shipping her back to their (muslim) homeland to "make her right". (We suspect that we have either circumvented an honor killing or, more likely, a hastily arranged marriage).

It is a problem of Islam. Undertoad did not write the original article. He merely provided one line of commentary.

[elSicomoro]

This isn't necessarily a problem of Islam, it is a problem of some followers of Islam (among others).

[Tasneem Project]

"McVeigh was a lone wacko. This is group behavior that is echoed in the countries and cultures that these assholes come from..."

McVeigh surely echoes the gun-toting, survivalist, socially retarded streak of insanity running through the heartland of the USA bivle-belt. To suggest this man was a lone nutter, whilst out of control immigrant Arab youth somehow echo some mythically evil Arab culture is simply nonsense.

The world is a complicated place. It isn't made up of goodies and baddies. If you really expect anyone to believe that the venomous, anecdotal nonsense you have written here is any respect in touch with the real world, or likely to lead a realistic solution to social problems anywhere, then you are deluded.

[xoxoxoBruce]

From your little ivory tower in the UK you expound on what's happening in the bible belt and the Islamic nations, hmmm. Have a hamburger.:p

[Undertoad]

Oh I get it now. It's wrong to be oversimplifying and anecdotal about repeated gang rapes -- but McVeigh was obviously produced by the bible belt culture.

I guess those Oklahomans kinda deserved it, then, eh?

[Uryoces]

I'm more afraid of your soccerball-toting, socially retarded, revisionist, cup-final fans. Oh my God! Lookout!!! Mr. Project has a soccer^H^H^H^H^H^Hfootball!!!

[hot_pastrami]

Originally posted by Tasneem Project
You'd make a good gutter press journalist - highlighting Islam as the alleged source of this kind of behaviour. Let's face it, the Oklahoma bomber had links to Elohim City, but did anyone go around reporting this as 'appalling Christian behaviour in the USA'.

In spreading hate through distorting the truth in this way, you make yourself not much better than the criminals you condemn. Utter hypocracy, and shame on you!

Zing! Excellent counter-point! You should have gone on to mention all of the Christain immigrants in European coutries, and how their Christian-dense neighborhoods are rife with such bombings, indicating that it's a defect in the culture, not just a case of "every-country-has-it's-share-of-nutballs." And don't forget all the Christain-ghetto gang-rapes you hear about in the news, and how Christain immigrants force their women to cover themselves and/or imprison them at home.

Sometimes different is just different, and sometimes different is fucked up. Muslim culture tends to have a larger-than-usual share of the latter, I think. I think Islam as a religion is a fine, worthy religion (if you're into worship at all, which I'm not), but the culture has some severe, unignorable impairments in the human-rights department.

Whereas I think it's flawed as a religion because it teaches that those different than you are bad. Just like Christianity is flawed, and - hey - all religions are flawed. I think we oughta just outlaw it, and kill all the zealots. World would be a much nicer place, and we'd be down to a population of a few hundred million.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It's unfortunate that many of the ethnic groups and cultures we find barbaric are also predominately Islamic in the faith department. That leads to refering to them by their common denominator which is Islamic. That of course leads to a defensive posture by Islamics that are not also barbarians because they feel they're being unfairly attacked. And the beat goes on.
Maybe we need a new name for the bad Islamics. Badlamics?

[Uryoces]

The problem is not with the religions themselves, it's when they become entangled with statecraft. The seperation between church and state allows things to run fairly and efficiently. We see a big problem today in Iran's Mullahcracy. Many religious leaders essentially being assigned territories that they control economically and religously. It sounds more like a mafia then government.

The collision of Islam and the western world seems to be at the root of this. The west offers opportunities [and of course pitfalls] to everyone regardless of gender or ethnicity, and this threatens some male members of the Islamic faith in ways they can't cope with. My advice to male Muslims: Chill out. Relax. Trust Allah in the way you have been spouting [walk the talk]. I guarantee you'll like women even better after a little exposure to western culture. This isn't the end of your world.

Christianity is supposed to be about fellowship and goodwill, but if you mix in control, you will attract people who seek it. I see little difference between bad Christians and bad political figures.



Please kill me, I said statecraft.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Our newest Cellar member Saraax is a American, educated, female Muslim. Things that would get her stoned to death in some countries. I hope she posts on this.