Debate: Wal-Mart

[pjshimmer]

Recently I have been informed that the store that provided my family--and millions of other low income families--with the most affordable prices, Wal-Mart, has been a major violator of workers' rights. Accordingly, "The people employed in their overseas factories are beaten and/or fired if they request safer working conditions." This, however, will not stop me from shopping @ Wal-Mart.

The way I look at it, there are two possibilities: Either Wal Mart represses employees, many employees suffer, but many more low-income families benefit from lower prices, OR Wal Mart fixes their practice, employees are in better condition, but prices are driven higher, and more low-income people are in worse condition.

For sure, in my family's situation a few years ago, we needed a place like Wal Mart to provide low prices. As far as employees being beaten--well, there's certainly more violence in the ghetto. Take out the gangs from Bronx if you want less beating.

By all means, I don't approve of Wal-Mart's harsh treatment of employees, if they are true; but I don't exactly think starving is much better than being beaten either.

[elSicomoro]

I don't know how much was going on during his reign, but since Sam Walton died, Wal-Mart has become a whole new beast.

The one good thing I can say about Wal-Mart is that they are practically the owners of the St. Louis Blues. (Bill Laurie's wife is one of Sam Walton's kids...one of the richest people in America.)

Wal-Mart has gotten a lot of flack recently for apparently preventing employees from unionizing. In a situation like Wal-Mart, I would imagine that being unionized COULD possibly be a good thing. I know how shitty I was treated when working for Venture (along with Caldor, one of the former discount divisions of May Department Stores, though May had already spun both off by the time I started there).

There's no doubt that Wal-Mart offers good stuff at good prices...hell, most of my work wardrobe is from there. But I would say that Wal-Mart undercuts competition like a motherfucker. Add to that the other allegations, and you have to wonder what the hell is going on over there.

(Having said that, however, Target has done a great job of keeping up with Wal-Mart. Maybe it's because Target also owns more high end stores like Marshall Field's, Dayton's, and Hudson's, but still...Target offers good stuff at good prices. And the difference between going to a Target and going to a Wal-Mart is like night and day.)

[Tobiasly]

Point of order, pjshimmer.. threads should only be started in the "user-hosted forums" by the person who owns said forum. Replying to others' threads in a user-hosted forum is OK, but you should start threads in one of the general areas.

So, how exactly were you "informed" that Wal Mart has such practices? I've never heard anything like that.

[elSicomoro]

Yeah, no shit...what's up with people hijacking my forum today? Geez.

Not like I really care, depending on the situation. PJ can slide...for the moment. However, I will merge Colhar's thread into the other poetry thread.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Tobiasly
So, how exactly were you "informed" that Wal Mart has such practices? I've never heard anything like that.

Don't you remember telling him?

I've heard allegations like this for a while now...the whole union thing has been the more recent issue though. I wouldn't be surprised if Wal-Mart was guilty of both issues.

[slang]

Originally posted by sycamore
Yeah, no shit...what's up with people hijacking my forum today? Geez.

[totally] I wanted to several times too but decided not to step on Sick-man's toes. If I get kicked outta the cellar, it's back to the bus station for me to recruit friends. [/off topic]

[Bitmap]

Wal-Mart, has been a major violator of workers' rights. Accordingly, "The people employed in their overseas factories are beaten and/or fired if they request safer working conditions." This, however, will not stop me from shopping @ Wal-Mart.

This is how Wal-Mart became the single strongest Financial Institution in The World. Stronger than Microsoft, Stronger than any other company in the world Seccond only To the United states Government.

[wolf]

I had not heard anything regarding treatment of workers who produce stuff FOR Walmart. Most of the Walmart is evil stories that I've heard are based on information related to the actual retail stores.

There's a couple different ones going around. They are supposed to have a lot of arcane employment policies and procedures that favor the corporation and not the employees. There are a number of lawsuits pending against them.

It is not unusual for Walmart employees to be told they have to work a certain number of hours "off the clock" in order to keep their jobs. They are putting in full or overtime hours, but only clock in for a part-time number of hours, thus saving corporate from having to provide them insurance benefits due to full time workers.

If a worker gets injured during one of these "off the clock" times (back injuries from lifting or other injuries from being struck by falling merchandise for example) they do NOT qualify for Workman's Comp to which they would otherwise be entitled.

I recently admitted a Walmart employee who DID qualify for the insurance benefits ... even had an official Blue Cross ID card with the patient's name and plan numbers ... the Blue Cross provider had NO record of the policy ever having been placed into effect. (I asked this person about the off-the-clock policy and it was confirmed)

I've heard other stuff as well ... that the corporate no fraternization rules state that employees cannot "form relationships" (i.e., date each other) and if a marriage DOES ultimately result, the female employee is the one who is fired.

THE anti-Walmart Site

Myths and Truths About Walmart

Walmart Forces Workers to Work Off The Clock

5,000 Lawsuits Pending Against Walmart

Class Action Suit for Gender Discrimination

Walmart Found Guilty in Unpaid Overtime Suit

Oh, heck ... Just google it; there are tons of examples.

I don't as a general rule shop in Walmart, just in case you were wondering. There was an attempt many years ago to keep Walmart out of the part of Montgomery County in which I live ... it was unsuccessful. A (regular sized, not super) Walmart opened in East Norriton last year.

[SteveDallas]

Retail stores trying to keep out unions is no news. My wife worked at Borders for some a few years back and there was a movement afoot to unionize that was resisted tooth and nail by the company. Ironically, by the time the vote was carried out--the union won--most of the people agitating for it had turned over. The actual negotiation of the contract could, for all I know, still be ongoing today some 5 years later. (A lot of these people were morons IMNSHO... they thought having a union would cure every single problem they had, and a lot of the agitation was based on "they're exploiting me because I have a master's degree and they're not paying me well enough." I was rolling my eyes & thinking, "dude, you're a retail clerk.. you could have five PhDs and a Nobel Prize and you'd be getting the same pay.) So while it might not be nice of Wal-Mart to try to suppress the unions, they aren't alone in trying.

I've never known what to make of all the labor abuse allegations. Yes, unclocked overtime is bad, but I'm hard pressed to say it's worse than the company that chops its workforce and whose president then preens about how efficient and lean they are while his staff are on the verge of nervous breakdowns because each of them is doing work that 2 or 3 people used to do. Every company gets away with what it can. If you're going to hang Wal-Mart out to dry, don't leave everybody else behind.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Cute little tricks like taking out a $65k life insurance policy on employees without their knowledge explains why they had so many older workers. They got caught insuring employees in states where it's illegal by writing the policy in a state where it is legal.
For every two jobs Walmart creates in a community the same community loses three elsewhere.
They also force suppliers to move their operations offshore costing American more jobs.
Another big problem is buying from a supplier at a steady or increasing rate causes that supplier to hire people and buy machinery. Then they find another source (usually offshore) and suddenly stop buying, forceing layoffs and bankruptcy. Walmart also has a habit of puting pressure on suppliers to keep cutting the wholesale prices until they lose money and fail.
Walmart is not doing you or the country any favors.

[Undertoad]

Except for that providing good choices of products cheaply in well-lit stores with trained employees running good systems.

What people really don't like is the continual churn of change that our economy demands. It would appear that some of Walmart's worst qualities come from demanding -- and getting -- the very lowest of prices from their suppliers. In doing so, they are price advocates for every one of their customers, too; they reflect the needs of their customers, because that's what the very best retailers do.

Walmart is successful because our economy needed a vast consolidation of retailers. If they replace three employees with two, they are creating wealth through improving the very logistics of the nation. We are all sore about it because retailing is drying up as a source for entrepreneurship, and as a nation we appreciate entrepreneurs and worship the underdog. But we like the changes in our lifestyle that this is bringing about even better. We don't like the underdog so much that we want to shop in Kmarts, for chrissakes.

[That Guy]

UT, you should change your title from "Snacker" to "Insightful Motherfucker."

[Undertoad]

'Cept the next time I get something frightfully wrong I would be an ass.

[xoxoxoBruce]

with trained employees running good systems.

Say what???? I don't think so!

What people really don't like is the continual churn of change that our economy demands.

What people really don't like is being un/underemployed.

In doing so, they are price advocates for every one of their customers, too

That'll do them a lot of good when there's nobody left with a job except their employees.

they are creating wealth

Bullshit, they're consolidating wealth. The rich are getting richer, the poor, poorer and the middle class extinct.

But we like the changes in our lifestyle that this is bringing about

Who the hell is we? I know a hell of a lot of people that don't. Of course I don't hang with the big money boys. The way it's going Radar might get his wish to kill the income tax when there is nobody left to collect from except the wealthy and powerful.

[elSicomoro]

You may not like the setup, Bruce, but given that they've only had one losing quarter in umpteen years, they have a pretty good thing going.

You and your crew are the minority. As the Dead Kennedys said, "Give me convenience or give me death!"

(I see valid points on both sides of the table. But until a majority of people shed the cheap/fast/now concept, we will see more and more Wal-Mart-esque situations.)