So the short fat Latino dude ...

[Adak]

whom Martin pounded on until said short fat Latino dude (Zimmerman), drew his pistol and shot him, has been found not guilty of murder, by a jury of 6 women.

From this we can learn:

1) Don't pound on guys who have weapons. It's always a bad idea to swing your fists at somebody with a loaded gun at hand.

2) Our President is *weird*. WTF does this comment from Obama convey:
"If I had a son, he'd look like Treyvan Martin"

Huh??

Talk about trying to shape the public's perception before the trial even began, and increase the pressure to prosecute!

3) The jury used a bit of common sense: when a guy is beating the crap out of someone, he won't be the one screaming for help. The guy screaming for help, will *ALWAYS* be the guy who's getting pounded. Neither Einstein nor Hawking assisted me in formulating this concept.

Duh!

And sadly:
4) If there wasn't a lot of national attention and pressure to prosecute Zimmerman, the district attorney would have used the common sense of #3 above, and never prosecuted Zimmerman.

Of course, the ridiculous Jesse Jackson stated after the verdict that Obama's Justice Dept. needed to do something, to fix this injustice.

Sure thing, Jesse. We'll just throw out our Constitution, Florida state laws, and our legal system, so you can get whatsoever you want.

I wish Treyvan was still around, and decided to pound the shit out of Jackson. It would be a YouTube viral video of the decade.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Adak

... Of course, the ridiculous Jesse Jackson stated after the verdict that Obama's Justice Dept. needed to do something, to fix this injustice.

Sure thing, Jesse. We'll just throw out our Constitution, Florida state laws, and our legal system, so you can get whatsoever you want. ...

He'll probably be a thorn in the President's side, using whatever issues he can, unless he gets pardons for his son and daughter-in-law.

[ZenGum]

Well, what I've learned, is that a private citizen can follow and confront another citizen, scare him so much as to start a fight, then fatally shoot him, and legally, all is okay.

Martin did NOTHING at all illegal or threatening until Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.

If that is legal, your laws are messed up.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Jim Crow is back...

[infinite monkey]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Well, what I've learned, is that a private citizen can follow and confront another citizen, scare him so much as to start a fight, then fatally shoot him, and legally, all is okay.

Martin did NOTHING at all illegal or threatening until Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.

If that is legal, your laws are messed up.

i get that you see americans as a complete group of fools, ignorant and violent.

did you watch the trial at all? do you understand the concept of 'reasonable doubt'? the prosecution failed, and as a liberal who hates guns, i think the jury got it right. surprise!

i won't even start with public reaction over other high profile trials. you're smart enough to get where i'm going with this.

btw, the painting of treyvon as a 9 year old who was just saving kittens isn't reality, as you may have seen in your 'learning' of the subject.

it's not a race issue. black and hispanic. the media cried 'white man.' where? that was another creation to confuse us all with our (honorable) desire to not take race into account in ANY trial, except for obvious hate crimes.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

. . . and as a liberal who hates guns, i think the jury got it right. surprise! . . .

Once you lose the gun-hatred, IM, you will no longer be genocide-friendly.

That's a good place to be, morally.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

... If that is legal, your laws are messed up.

Let me 'splain how it works here Zen. There's a camp that believes guns kill people; but, when somebody gets killed and there's a gun involved they arrest and charge some person who may simply have fallen in with a bad gun. When that person goes to trial, there's automatically reasonable doubt about which was really the perpetrator ... the person or the gun. The person is therefore acquitted and the gun, which was only taken into protective custody without ever actually being arrested or charged, goes free.

People say that alcohol kills; so, we have laws that make doing things like driving under the influence of alcohol illegal. People say that guns kill; but, there are no laws making doing anything under the influence of a gun illegal!

So you see, it's not that our existing laws are messed up. It's just that the current culture is lagging in enacting laws that hold guns responsible for the people they kill; also, laws to hold people who partake of demon guns responsible for (the lesser offense) of acting under the influence of a gun. We just need a little more time to even things out.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Well, what I've learned, is that a private citizen can follow and confront another citizen, scare him so much as to start a fight, then fatally shoot him, and legally, all is okay.

Martin did NOTHING at all illegal or threatening until Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.

If that is legal, your laws are messed up.

Zimmerman didn't "confront" Martin. Martin saw Zimmerman following him, (this is inside a private gated community, so there aren't many people out and about). Anyway, Martin tells his gf he's going to "take care of this guy" following him, and doubles back to Z's position.

Now Zimmerman starts questioning Martin. Zimmerman has already called 911 for backup, and was advised to not confront M, and he's also been advised to not bring his firearm while in a community watchman role. Zimmerman disregards that advise. He knows his rights, and he knows he has no partner, and no fast backup is available. The gated community has no police department, so the response time for the sheriff is rather long.

Shortly afterward, the taller guy has the shorter guy on his back, astride his chest, and is pounding shorty's face with his fists.

Someone is yelling for help. It attracts a witness, but the witness can't say for sure who is yelling for help, because he has a bad angle, and is too far away.

The taller guy continues to pound on the shorter guy, who can't get up. Other calls to 911 are made. Then a shot is heard. Treyvan has been mortally wounded, by Zimmerman.

Zimmerman is taken in for questioning. He has a gashed and reportedly broken nose, a swollen face, and a scalp laceration where Treyvan had bounced Zimmerman's head against the ground several times, while beating on him.

The newmedia get the picture of Zimmerman getting out of the cruiser at the station. They photoshop the picture so Zimmerman has no injuries at all, and publish it as factual.

Zimmerman's Mom and relatives claimed in court that it was Treyvan yelling for help - after first saying it was not Treyvan yelling for help, when interviewed by detectives.

Like fun! Guys who are winning fights, don't scream for help from anyone nearby.

Treyvan was 4 inches taller than Zimmerman, and at 17 years old, was on his high school football team. Zimmerman was no match for Treyvan in a fight. He's heavier, but not an athlete, and decidedly "well nourished" as they say.

Zimmerman could not have retreated to safety at any time after the fight broke out, even if he wanted to, because Treyvan quickly took him down, and sat on Zimmerman, while repeatedly punching him in the face, bouncing Zimmerman's head against the concrete beneath him.

I don't believe Treyvan intended to kill Zimmerman, but he might have killed him anyway. He certainly wasn't stopping, even after Zimmerman started screaming for help. He kept on pounding away.

It's a huge loss of life, for something as trivial as being questioned by the community watchman. Treyvan's real shortfall, was failing to stay civil, when talking with Zimmerman. There was no need for a fight to ever start. Maybe a heated argument or lively discussion, but not a fight.

The fight was Treyvan's idea, and Zimmerman had every right to defend himself, in that situation.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Adak

I don't believe Treyvan intended to kill Zimmerman, but he might have killed him anyway. He certainly wasn't stopping, even after Zimmerman started screaming for help. He kept on pounding away.

According to FL law, Martin had every right to beat the crap out of Zimmerman. He was stalked and confronted. And had every reason to fear for his life. We now know what he did not. Martin had more reasons than he knew to fear for his life.

Nobody knows who was calling for help. But we do know who the aggressor was. 'Shorty' created the entire problem. And deserved to have the crap beaten from his body.

Martin died because he was doing what FL laws says he should do. Use as much force as possible when one fears for their life.

If Zimmerman was not carrying a gun, would he have acted intelligently? Probably. Instead he foolishly did what he had done so many times previously. So many times, he saw a black man and reported him as a suspect criminal. Zimmerman repeatedly acted on his emotions. Assumed based only on observation and speculation rather than think rationally like an adult.

Zimmerman's previous actions imply he saw black men as criminals. Is that illegal? If not, then we have one example of reasonable doubt.

I'm not exactly sure which part constitutes 'reasonable doubt'. Jurors are not talking. Required details are not specific. Not even listed here. We really need to hear the jurors interviewed. Curiously, they all have refused.

It's no longer a question of what is fair. Fair (and legal under FL law) is for Martin to seriously harm or even kill Zimmerman. Fair is irrelevant. Only relevant question is what is legal. Will Federal charges be filed against the gun for violating a human's civil rights?

[ZenGum]

Meanwhile, on 4-chan:

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by tw

According to FL law, Martin had every right to beat the crap out of Zimmerman. He was stalked and confronted. And had every reason to fear for his life. We now know what he did not. Martin had more reasons than he knew to fear for his life. ...

You've got to know when to hold ground, know when to give ground
Know when to walk away and know when to run
You never turn on a watchman in a gated community
There'll be time enough for protest when the day is done

Every hoodie knows that the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' who is posturing and who is packin' heat
'Cause every brawl's a winner and every brawl's a loser
And the goal is to live long enough to die in your sleep

[Adak]

Originally Posted by sexobon

You've got to know when to hold ground, know when to give ground
Know when to walk away and know when to run
You never turn on a watchman in a gated community
There'll be time enough for protest when the day is done

Every hoodie knows that the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' who is posturing and who is packin' heat
'Cause every brawl's a winner and every brawl's a loser
And the goal is to live long enough to die in your sleep

Wrong. Martin wasn't "stalked". Zimmerman was keeping an eye on him, as a neighborhood watch guy/gal might be expected to. The name - neighborhood WATCH" means just that. They try to keep an eye out on people in their neighborhood.

Martin was never threatened. He told his girl friend, just before he turned back to meet with Zimmerman, that he was going to "fix that cracker following me".

To spell is out for the gentrified folk, that means Martin was the one who confronted Zimmerman, with violent intentions.

Either that, or Martin was a doctor, and Zimmerman was his patient.

[ZenGum]

Hi Infi, nice to see you back ... wish it was on slightly happier terms.

No, I know that not all Americans are assholes. But it seems to me that some of your rules and norms foster assholishness.

[infinite monkey]

well, not ALL americans, just our general policies foster such racist crap, from all sides. i can agree with that.

oh i'm ok, just a huge thing going on right now so i am dealing with that as best i can.

[ZenGum]

to you, Infi.

Sexobon ....



Although a very good point in amongst all that.


Mind you, it is worth noting ...


The GUN was BLACK!!!