Last Year's Model

[Perry Winkle]

There are a bunch of 2012 cars at dealers around here with 10-20k miles on them. Is there something to be wary about? They are ~20% under their new price. Seem to be almost-new cars. Mustn't there be a reason people trade these in?

I'm not looking so much to buy a 2012 right now, but I'm more interested in the pattern. If in 2-3 years is it work looking at these vehicles or just pay the premium for a new one?

Our '07 Caliber is having issues with only 53k on it. We bought it 2 years ago with only ~30k miles on it. Would really like to not have thousands in repairs due on such a new car. My '95 Avalon stays on the road for basically nothing, most years. Though it needs struts soon -- big whoop. 280k miles.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Could be rental cars. Watch out for flood cars.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Perry Winkle

Our '07 Caliber is having issues with only 53k on it. We bought it 2 years ago with only ~30k miles on it. Would really like to not have thousands in repairs due on such a new car. My '95 Avalon stays on the road for basically nothing, most years.

You have demonstrated what is more important. A car designed by an engineer will clearly cost less than one designed by a business school graduate.

Five year cost of a Chevy Impala is about $42,000. An equivalent Camry will cost about $29,000 over the same five years. A car designed by cost controls will always cost more.

April issue of Consumer Report is essential here. They list a maybe 14% worst used cars to buy - by model and year. And a 14% best used cars. Those facts are essential for starting a decision.

Of course a simple number that says so much comes from dividing Horsepower by liters. Strangely enough, it even says how reliable interior parts (seats, trim, switches) will be.

Car Fax is another useful tool. However, Car Fax is dependent on data from the states. Sometimes, the state can take 6 months to, for example, list the car as scrapped due to flood damage.

[elSicomoro]

I'll never buy new again...you can get a great deal on a slightly used car with a substantial reduction in price, plus a full warranty. Why buy new?

[glatt]

I think there is a shift going on in America where the wide open road doesn't have the sense of wonder that it used to have. Things are too congested. Driving is a chore. I think we are entering a new era where cars are seen less as status symbols and extensions of our personality, and more as a necessary evil so we can get from one place to another.

You see car sharing services like Zip Car popping up in urban areas. You see a strong demand for used cars. Used cars are more of an option because cars are better than they were 30 years ago. They last longer. Plus, cars are more expensive today.

There are still a lot of people who love cars, but I don't think you have the car culture today that existed 40 years ago.

[Perry Winkle]

Well, we don't have congestion here. Montana is still wide-open and fairly empty. We routinely drive 60 miles to have dinner, just because that's the nearest decent restaurant.

Right now we have two cars. The old Avalon which is not quite reliable enough to go far from civilization and the Caliber which is suspect at best.

I work from home right now, so all we need is one really reliable car. That may change in the future.

We'll just flog what we have for now and maybe consolidate to one in a few years. Though we are tempted to get a beater truck to get us further into the mountains for backpacking, hiking and kayaking and such.

We've been eying 70s to late 80s trucks for that purpose. Most of them are not compatible with my height.

[Perry Winkle]

Is there an issue with former rental cars other than that people generally drive them harder than they drive their own?

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by Perry Winkle

Is there an issue with former rental cars other than that people generally drive them harder than they drive their own?

Well there is that issue, but the cars are generally well-taken care of. Even if it is run rough, if you buy from a place like Enterprise (which I did), you're getting a good car. I drive a lot (80K miles a year), and most of the stuff I've had to repair/replace on the Impala has been routine maintenance.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Perry Winkle

Is there an issue with former rental cars other than that people generally drive them harder than they drive their own?

People generally drive their own cars just like rentals. But rentals usually get properly maintained. And the rental companies tend to sell their better models directly. Their reputation is attached to that sale.

Today, a car with 40,000 miles is still a new car.

Unfortunately, auto manufacturers, who could not maintain sufficient sales due to that model's quality, then sold cars to rental fleets at a loss. To maintain factory production. Notice few if any Toyotas, Hyundai, or Hondas in a rental fleet. Those manufacturers don't need rental sales to maintain production.

As for Land Rover and Jaguar, well, those are now Indian companies. The Indians (Tata Motors?) are upgrading those those products.

Consumer Reports' April issue is essential to the decision process.

[infinite monkey]

I had one new car.

2 weeks later a punk ass punk killed it. A few more inches he might've killed me.

So it wasn't worth it.

Of course, I buy a used car I like and punk ass punks ram into me anyway.

I freaking hate cars, but for the reasons glatt says: the necessary commutes in the congestion and crap. It'd be great to buy for 'fun' and get like old Jeeps and stuff that you can just run the hell out of until they die then get another old jeep. I hate cars and all that ownership entails but I love driving on country roads and on paths and through woods and stuffs.

[elSicomoro]

I bought my current car (an '09 Impala) in late 2010 with 43,000 miles on it. I paid $16K for it...new, it was probably $26K. 200,000 miles later, she's doing great.

[elSicomoro]

For doing mountain/trail stuff, that sounds like the way to go, your height notwithstanding.

After this car is paid off, I'll only buy beaters, then work my way up. I'm not dealing with payments anymore.

[JamesB]

If you want something unreliable, buy a used car that was originally made in England.

We have a 2003 Land Rover Discovery and a 1989 Jaguar XJ-S V12. Love them both, but hate their unreliability and difficulty getting parts.

[elSicomoro]

Ah yes...good ol' British electrical work not updated since WW2...

[JamesB]

Originally Posted by sycamore

Ah yes...good ol' British electrical work not updated since WW2...

Lucas: Prince of Darkness

Originally Posted by Joseph Lucas (1834-1903)

A gentleman does not motor about after dark.

The quote says it all, although British Leyland's management preference for using the cheapest quality parts and the assembly workers at the plants that had no interest in doing any sort of work, let alone quality work, contributed more to the problems in my Jaguar than anything from Lucas.

By the time the Land Rover was built in 2003, the brand had already been bought by BMW and then shortly afterwards sold to Ford.