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#1 |
Lecturer
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 796
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Iran's Nuclear Plans
The Israeli PM challenged us (in his most recent UN address), to "draw a red line" where Iran must stop their effort to create more enriched Uranium, or face military attacks to force them to stop.
We've had several years of economic sanctions designed to stop this, but that clearly hasn't done the job. According to some, they'll have enough material for a nuclear bomb, by some time next year. The Iranians say they will NOT be stopping their enrichment, and I believe them. Will they go on to make nuclear weapons? No one knows. Despite smart bombs, there would be thousands killed if an attack was made. Mostly Iranians at or near the nuclear processing sites, but some civilians and military personnel on both sides, also. Wouldn't that move both sides towards more war? Historically, it has had just that effect, on bombed countries. Do you believe we should "draw a red line" as described in the UN speech by the Israeli PM, and if we do draw such a line, and it is crossed, what should we do then? I realize "bomb them into the stone age", is one approach, but I'm looking for more sensible suggestions. What do you think? |
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#2 |
Nearly done.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Teetering on the edge.
Posts: 1,134
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To be clear - do we think the Iranians have no right to defend themselves?
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#3 |
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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I think we've expended too much blood and treasure on Israel already. Netanyahu reminds me of a playground instigator, it's about time to bitch slap him and tell him he's not calling the shots. Don't forget Israel is a military ally not a friend.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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#4 |
Franklin Pierce
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,695
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Agreed. We made an obligation to help protect Israel from attack, not support if they are going on the offensive.
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I like my perspectives like I like my baseball caps: one size fits all. |
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#5 | |
Lecturer
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 796
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Quote:
You either remove the threat of such an attack, or you risk receiving it - period. At some point, you take the offensive, because it's your only defense. |
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#6 | |||
Franklin Pierce
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,695
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Quote:
Second, you are assuming we can eliminate Iran's nuclear program. We can't without a ground war. Third, you are not addressing the consequences of attacking Iran. What will they, and the international community, do in response. If we attack on a highly speculative reason, we will get blamed for Iran's response. This is not good for US interests. Quote:
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Realistically, wind and solar are not good macro-energy sources. They take up too much space compared to coal, oil, gas, and nuclear. However, they are very good micro-energy sources. This is the future I see with wind and solar.
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I like my perspectives like I like my baseball caps: one size fits all. |
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#7 | |
Goon Squad Leader
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 27,063
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Quote:
If you believe it, and I think you do based on the context of your other statements, then by this logic, war is inevitable. Do you also believe this is true for other countries, say, Israel or Iran? Then war is inevitable, since the *removal of the threat of such an attack* will not come from the holders of such weapons. The ONLY time voluntary disarmament has happened has been in the framework of the START treaties. And still, unimaginable destructive power still exists. If your position listed above is true, then how can we avoid war? Do you think Iran can be persuaded to stop their work that some find threatening? Where is the path to peace?
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Be Just and Fear Not. |
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#8 | ||
Lecturer
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 796
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Quote:
If the Iranians weren't so bellicose and threatening to wipe out <some nation>, then I don't believe Iran would have any problems going nuclear - including weaponry. Lots of other countries have gone nuclear, and while we don't like the spread of nuclear weapons, we haven't gone to war over it. Quote:
The ONLY thing that REALLY irritates me about the Israeli's, is their insistence upon using spy's on us. I know it's common as a cloudy day for nations to spy on each other, but I'd dock them a million dollars of foreign aid for every spying incident against us - permanently. That is such a "biting the hand that feeds you" kind of thing, and a damn insult. Last edited by Adak; 09-30-2012 at 06:47 PM. |
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#9 | ||
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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Quote:
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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#10 | ||
Franklin Pierce
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,695
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Quote:
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If Iran gets the bomb, there is a very small chance they will actually use it but may become much bolder in supporting their proxies throughout the world. As much as neoconservatives talk, the Iranian regime is a rational one. The CIA recognizes this and the Israeli equivalent recognizes this. If they get the bomb, they will likely act just as North Korea and Pakistan did, which BTW are much more unstable regimes, and protect it all costs. They will not give their special toy away. Remember, we don't trust politicians in this country. What makes us think that Iranian politicians are any more truthful? However, Iran getting the bomb is against US national interests. I have confidence we will do something if they get too close but no one knows what we are planning. My top guesses are a bombing campaign against the nuclear facilities or a very nasty cyberwarfare campaign. BTW, we are at (cyber) war with Iran right now.
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I like my perspectives like I like my baseball caps: one size fits all. |
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#11 |
Doctor Wtf
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Badelaide, Baustralia
Posts: 12,861
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Israel is believed to have a couple of hundred nuclear warheads.
Bombing nuclear facilities could lead to ... consequences. Why the heck should the west care so much? Oh yeah, oil. So instead of spending another trillion dollars on another middle-east war, spend a trillion dollars on converting our industry to solar-hydrogen power. We could, like, leave them alone. Forever.
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Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl. |
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#12 |
Read? I only know how to write.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
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George Jr announced the axis of evil: countries that America would unilaterally attack with no justification. Then George Jr attacks Iraq. What do the other 'axis of evil' do? They better damn well better have nuclear weapons. So both nations divert major efforts into getting those weapons.
Also as a result of George Jr's threat: Ahmadinejad, a hard liner, is overwhelmingly elected (by over 60%) as president of Iran. So America got the 'axis of evil' it wanted. Welcome to inevitable consequences a decade later. Nothing new. Actually quite predictable. These consequences were discussed what - maybe nine years ago in the Cellar? |
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#13 | |
Lecturer
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 796
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Quote:
We've seen that spending trillions of dollars on Green energy, has gotten us next to nothing for an adequate power supply. Truth is, wind and solar just don't have the "oomph!" that we need for our power supply. Windmills may look quite impressive, but their actual power output per windmill, averaged over a year, is much too small to serve our needs. Same with solar. It's nice on a sunny day, but just not adequate by a long shot. And no, adding them together is not NEARLY enough. A drop in the bucket x 2 is not near enough. |
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#14 |
Старый сержант
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NC, dreaming of large Russian women.
Posts: 1,464
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I say we take them at their word, they are not developing nuclear weapons.
Then in a couple of years, if they should end up with nuclear weapons we crush their nuts in a vice. I'd bet we would get lots of support for using the vice.
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Birth, wealth, and position are valueless during wartime. Man is only judged by his character --Soldier's Testament. Death, like birth, is a secret of Nature. - Marcus Aurelius. |
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#15 | |
Read? I only know how to write.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
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Quote:
Netanyahu is justifying war by violating basic concepts. His niave and extremist rhetoric also explained an Israeli disaster in their last Lebanon invasion. And explains a resulting disaster for Israel if he unilaterally "Pearl Harbors" Iran. First requirement to justify war: a smoking gun. An attack on Iran can only be justified by a smoking gun such as the WTC or Pearl Harbor. Unilaterally attacking justified only by fear is what backwater dictatorships, wacko extremists, and losers do. |
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