Professor Gates, Harvard's Pride

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Extensively quoted by Larry Elder.

Whether the prof had had a couple before heading home or not, he was acting and talking about like he had.

[Cloud]

I was wondering when da Cellar would comment about this.

All the guy had to do was be polite and show the cop his driver's license. But no . . . he had to fly off the handle. Conditioning, perhaps, because this is THE scholar of racism in this country, who "knew every racial incident since Jim Crow" -- so he just had to make one himself.

Even smart people can be stupid.

[xoxoxoBruce]

After seeing and listening to both of them on the TV, I came to the conclusion they are both lying. Both trying to act so innocent, it could be they are trying to start acting careers.

The cop, responding to a break in call, has no idea what kind of shit is going to go down. And don't tell me a 5' 6", 150 lb man can't fuck you up... or kill you. So he's on edge, and acting all official and badass out of fear/caution.

The prof, well know and respected in his little circles, feels the cop should take him at his word, and expects polite conversation. He gets pissed when the cop follows him into the house uninvited, even though he hasn't proven who he is or that he should be there, yet. Like the cop is going to let a still suspect just walk away, c'mon.

From there it escalates, with the prof being cocky and the cop getting more pissed at being given a hard time while risking his life to protect the prof's property, and starts acting more hardass.

And the rest is history in the making, by everyone choosing sides while the media plays it to the hilt, interviewing everyone with an axe to grind.

[classicman]

Wow - Bruce. You really nailed that one.

Oh, maybe a 5'6" guy could have a weapon.

Maybe the guy, in the last 4 years lived at that address (got his ID, and beat his wife and was kicked out. His License would still show this as his address, yet things still had to be checked out.

just a couple random thoughts.

[glatt]

Bottom line, the cop did everything right, up until the moment after the prof showed proof that he lived there. Once the guy proved it was his house, the cop should have left.

There's the whole issue that cops should be polite to citizens, and citizens should be polite to cops, but that's all window dressing. I think both of them were disrespectful to one another, and the cop arrested him only because he was being a dick. No law against that though. The cop should have a thicker skin. Prof shouldn't be surprised though. If you're a dick to a cop, it's not going to go well, regardless of your skin color.

But the cop was wrong to arrest the prof.

[Happy Monkey]

Regardless of whatever else happened, both accounts state that Gates did eventually show the cop ID, at which point the cop should have been gone, and there would have been nobody for Gates to be "tumultuous" at.

I'm sick of people acting like cops are wild animals, and if you don't tiptoe around them you deserve what you get.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Regardless of whatever else happened, both accounts state that Gates did eventually show the cop ID, at which point the cop should have been gone, and there would have been nobody for Gates to be "tumultuous" at.

If it wasn't a membership card to the Mickey Mouse Club. It would have to be a valid ID with sufficient information to convince the cop he belonged there.

I'm sick of people acting like cops are wild animals, and if you don't tiptoe around them you deserve what you get.

I don't tiptoe around cops, but I do know I'm required to cooperate with them when they are performing their official duties or they have the power to detain/arrest me, by force if necessary, for interference with a police officer in the performance of his duties.

I also know if I act like a dick, he will act like a bigger dick, because it's imperative for his safety to maintain control of the situation. That's his most important weapon, because he has no way of knowing who's armed, nuts or a threat.

There are certainly cops that shouldn't be, but most are just trying to do their job and get home alive.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

If it wasn't a membership card to the Mickey Mouse Club. It would have to be a valid ID with sufficient information to convince the cop he belonged there.

He wasn't arrested for not belonging there; he was arrested for being tumultuous in his own home.

I also know if I act like a dick, he will act like a bigger dick, because it's imperative for his safety to maintain control of the situation.

Arresting someone for attitude is losing control, not maintaining it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

He wasn't arrested for not belonging there; he was arrested for being tumultuous in his own home. Arresting someone for attitude is losing control, not maintaining it.

He was arrested for "being tumultuous" during a police investigation of a reported crime, where he was the prime suspect. Whether he showed sufficient evidence of his right to be there is not clear. But even if he did that doesn't end the investigation. The cop should still try to find out if the person that reported the break in, saw someone else, before the professor got there. If there was someone hiding in the house, unknown to either of them. What if the cop left and the prof was murdered?
But anyway, verbal assault on a working cop is sufficient reason for arrest, obstructing justice, interfering with a criminal investigation, and clearly racism.

He wasn't arrested for his attitude, he was arrested for his actions, and the fact that he was arrested proves the cop was in control of the situation, if not his temper.

"Being tumultuous" in the real world is risking escalated retaliation, often massive.

I still maintain they were both wrong.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

If there was someone hiding in the house, unknown to either of them. What if the cop left and the prof was murdered?

So the cop was putting Gates in protective custody to save him from a hypothetical burglar who he offered to lock in the house behind them?

He wasn't arrested for his attitude, he was arrested for his actions, and the fact that he was arrested proves the cop was in control of the situation, if not his temper.

He needs to be in control of both. Gates' actions were displaying attitude, so actions vs attitude is a bit of a quibble.

I still maintain they were both wrong.

Sure. Gates was wrong for being an ass, and Crowley was wrong for arresting him.

Cops are supposed to deal with people who are having bad days, and if they can only handle asses by tossing them in jail, they need a new line of work. "Don't poke the bear" excuses are only appropriate if the cop is considered to be a wild animal, unable or unwilling to deescalate.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I'm sick of people acting like cops are wild animals, and if you don't tiptoe around them you deserve what you get.

I know I'm late to this party, but amen to that, monkey. Most cops I know are fucking buzztards who think they are entitled to walk into a home and start making life decisions for the owner. With a taser.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I'm sick of people acting like cops are wild animals, and if you don't tiptoe around them you deserve what you get.

This.

Images from Texas where the cop pulls granny over and gives her a ticket, but she refuses to sign it. (It's her right not to sign it.)

Cop doesn't see it that way, so he physically pulls her out of the car, pushes her to the side and SCREAMS at her. She yells, fine, I'll sign it. He's pushing her again.

She gets pissed he's shoving on her, and screams right back. He decides he's gonna get control of the situation, so after a few warnings, (and her trying to get back in the truck), he finally tazes her, then yells at her to get on the ground.

At first, I thought, well, she should have just signed the damn ticket. Then, she should have just complied with the officer, and none of that would have happened.

Then I realized, wait a minute. She chose not to sign the ticket, which is well within her rights. That cop should have just said ok ma'am, have a good day and left. As soon as she exercised her right to NOT sign that ticket, he got it in his head that she was "a trouble maker". And he wasn't having that. No 72 year old woman is going to give him trouble. No siree.

As soon as he put his hands on her and forced her out of her truck, he committed a crime: assault, and technically, kidnapping. She had broken NO law, he had NO probable cause to pull her from that vehicle.

At that very moment, he STOPPED being a police officer, protecting the public safety, and became a thug. Abuse of power, no?

This woman did NOT deserve to be tasered. She was beligerent, yes, but aren't cops trained on how to handle beligerent people? Isn't that kind of the down side to being a cop? I mean, wouldn't one think the vast majority of criminals are beligerent in the first place?

(And I'm too lazy to look up beligerent at the moment.)

Gates, while a cock, should not have been arrested. He was not in a public place, he was in his yard. Private property, yes? The cop, after finally getting ID on this cock, should have said, ok sir, have a good night, and walked away. Gates did NOTHING against the law, and I think he should sue the fuck out of Cambridge PD. Not because of the race issue, but because he didn't break any laws and got arrested anyway.

This wasn't a case of racism, it was case of cop-ism.

[richlevy]

Actually, if you listen closely at the point where the officer is telling her that he will taser her, you can hear her say "I dare you".

The shove did serve to get them away from traffic.

All of that being said, the issue was escalated by the deputy who had filled out the ticket and should have handed it to her and left. I believe Onyx is correct that she was not required to sign the ticket, but I am not a lawyer and Texas law may be different (sometimes I'm not sure it's part of the US).

The woman was argumentative but was not combative under any definition of the word I can find.

On the face of it, the officer chose to escalate.

And now for something in really bad taste:

You may be a redneck if your mother does not remove the Marlboro from her lips before telling the state patrolman to kiss her ass.

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

This.

Images from Texas where the cop pulls granny over and gives her a ticket, but she refuses to sign it. (It's her right not to sign it.)

Then I realized, wait a minute. She chose not to sign the ticket, which is well within her rights. That cop should have just said ok ma'am, have a good day and left.

Sure its her right not to, and in that case it is the cops duty to give her a nice ride to jail.

Do not argue your case on the side of the road, save that for court. Also you must sign the ticket or you will receive a free taxi ride to the local jail. Signing is not an admission of guilt, just a promise to appear in court. You do not have the right to see the radar readout and it does not matter anyway.

From:
http://www.speedingticketcentral.com...ng-ticket.html

Or to be more technical:

§ 543.004. NOTICE TO APPEAR REQUIRED: CERTAIN
OFFENSES. (a) An officer shall issue a written notice to appear
if:
(1) the offense charged is speeding or a violation of
the open container law, Section 49.03, Penal Code; and
(2) the person makes a written promise to appear in
court as provided by Section 543.005.
(b) If the person is a resident of or is operating a vehicle
licensed in a state or country other than this state, Subsection (a)
applies only as provided by Chapter 703.
(c) The offenses specified by Subsection (a) are the only
offenses for which issuance of a written notice to appear is
mandatory.


§ 543.005. PROMISE TO APPEAR; RELEASE. To secure
release, the person arrested must make a written promise to appear
in court by signing the written notice prepared by the arresting
officer. The signature may be obtained on a duplicate form or on an
electronic device capable of creating a copy of the signed notice.
The arresting officer shall retain the paper or electronic original
of the notice and deliver the copy of the notice to the person
arrested. The officer shall then promptly release the person from
custody.

From:
http://law.onecle.com/texas/transpor...hapter543.html


Still think the cop was an asshole for trying to get her to sign, and then trying to arrest her, as was his JOB?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

Sure its her right not to, and in that case it is the cops duty to give her a nice ride to jail.

From:
http://www.speedingticketcentral.com...ng-ticket.html

Or to be more technical:

From:
http://law.onecle.com/texas/transpor...hapter543.html


Still think the cop was an asshole for trying to get her to sign, and then trying to arrest her, as was his JOB?

Assuming your facts are all accurate, then Yes, he was an asshole. He wouldn't be an asshole if he had just given her a nice ride to jail. He should not have assaulted her or tased her.