High School Strip Search Case goes to Supreme Court

[richlevy]

From here.

So basically, a girl with no prior record was strip searched based on hearsay from a fellow student. The drug in question was ibuprofin. The girls parents were not consulted. The school is saying that minors have about the same rights as prison inmates.

The 9th Circuit ruled in favor of the student. The Supreme Court may be set to overturn completely, allowing schools unimpeded right to strip and possibly even body cavity search students at will.

That being said, the tone of the questions does not always indicate how the justices will vote.

Instead, most of the justices voiced concern that students could hide dangerous drugs such as crack cocaine or heroin in their clothes.

The case before the court concerns a 13-year-old Arizona girl who was strip searched in a nurse's office after a school friend said the girl, Savana Redding, had brought white pills to school. The pills were extra-strength ibuprofen, which is commonly taken for headaches and cramps.

Last year, a U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the strip search of Savana Redding was unreasonable and unconstitutional since the pills were ibuprofen. And the court held that the school officials who ordered the search were liable for damages.

But in their comments and questions, most of the justices signaled they are inclined to overturn that decision.

Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. said the school officials should be shielded from being sued since the law governing school searches had not been clear. In the past, the court has said public officials cannot be held liable for damages unless they violate a "clearly established" right.

Better background here.

Imagine how f**cked up this country could be if the cops could break down the door of anyones house just because their neighbor made up a story.

[Aliantha]

She was searched by a nurse. Presumably a woman. What's the problem?

Something needs to be done about drugs in school. So it turned out to be nothing this time, but how bout next time when they do find cocain or heroin? Will there be any uproar then?

I don't agree with cavity searches. I think kids that're that serious about dealing drugs would do it outside of school hours, plus most school kids wouldn't want to buy something that came out of another students arsehole would they? (I'm sure there'd be a few though)

The issue here is dealing rather than users from what I can tell. If the school gets a report that a student came to school with 'pills', how should the school react? Let the kid have time to flush them or simply dump them on the floor when no one's looking? You know that's the common way to avoid a conviction right? If no one saw you drop the drugs you're standing on, ie. they can't prove you were the one holding them, they can't convict you.

If they thought my son had drugs in his posession I'd have no objection to a same sex teacher doing a strip search. If he had drugs on him, I'd be glad they found out because there's no way in hell I'd knowingly have my kid take drugs to school and he'd cop holy hell when he got home on top of whatever punishment the school and authorities could come up with too.

eta: The issue here is not about private property. It's about schools which are a public domain. Even if it's a private school, members of the public frequent the area making it a public place.

[SteveDallas]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Something needs to be done about drugs in school.

Welcome to The War On Drugs, ladies and gentlemen. Extremism in defense of loss of liberty is no vice.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

So it turned out to be nothing this time, but how bout next time when they do find cocain or heroin? Will there be any uproar then?

Leaving aside for the moment the fact that this specific case was not about any illegal drug, yeah, I'd still have a problem with it. If they really have reason to believe the kid has drugs hidden on their body, then I expect them to call the police. I also expect them to call me.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I don't agree with cavity searches. I think kids that're that serious about dealing drugs would do it outside of school hours, plus most school kids wouldn't want to buy something that came out of another students arsehole would they? (I'm sure there'd be a few though)

So... you don't think the cavity search is wrong, you just don't think it would yield results often enough to be worth the trouble?

Originally Posted by Aliantha

If they thought my son had drugs in his posession I'd have no objection to a same sex teacher doing a strip search.

More power to you. In this country, however, we have, or had, something called the Fourth Amendment. And I've had it up to here with moronic "zero tolerance" policies. If your son really were dealing heroin out of his jeans, would it really make a difference to have him cool his heels for an hour or two--yes, supervised, with somebody keeping an eye on him at all times--to do things RIGHT, you know, with due process and all that other lame shit, instead of somebody deciding they know how to handle it because they saw Law & Order?

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by SteveDallas

Leaving aside for the moment the fact that this specific case was not about any illegal drug, yeah, I'd still have a problem with it. If they really have reason to believe the kid has drugs hidden on their body, then I expect them to call the police. I also expect them to call me.

Who knew it was not about illegal drugs till they discovered it was ibuprophen? I'd guess the school had no idea what 'drugs' the child had till they'd found them.


So... you don't think the cavity search is wrong, you just don't think it would yield results often enough to be worth the trouble?

I don't think it's appropriate, but I also don't think it'd yield anything 99.9% of the time.


More power to you. In this country, however, we have, or had, something called the Fourth Amendment. And I've had it up to here with moronic "zero tolerance" policies. If your son really were dealing heroin out of his jeans, would it really make a difference to have him cool his heels for an hour or two--yes, supervised, with somebody keeping an eye on him at all times--to do things RIGHT, you know, with due process and all that other lame shit, instead of somebody deciding they know how to handle it because they saw Law & Order?

I don't think it's anything to do with who watched what TV show. It might just have been a school trying to save a child from having to deal with police and other authorities. Perhaps this whole situation has been blown out of proportion by the usual suspects screaming about rights being violated when all they were trying to do was protect the child herself and the rest of the student population. Why didn't she just turn the pills over rather than needing to be strip searched?

[Alluvial]

From the article:

In the case before the court, a vice principal at an Arizona middle school in 2003 told a nurse and an aide to take student Savana Redding to an office and to search her and her underwear to see if she was hiding the pills.

She had nothing to hide, and she and her mother sued Safford school officials on grounds that they had subjected her to an "unreasonable search."

It looks as though it wasn't a case of "turn the pills over" but hearsay that she had some hidden in her underwear.

Also:

The vice principal in this case had been told that some students had pills, and that they were to be passed around at lunchtime. Based on that report, "he was entitled to search anyplace where contraband might reasonably be found," said Matthew Wright, the district's lawyer.

Justice Antonin Scalia asked if that applied to a "body-cavity search."

Wright replied that no school official would undertake such a search, but he insisted that it would be legal.

That makes me uneasy.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Something needs to be done about drugs in school. So it turned out to be nothing this time, but how bout next time when they do find cocain or heroin?

I just told my local police that you have kiddy porn. Your police will arrest you, take your family away, strip search you looking for porn in body cavities, and ... well something must be done about kiddy porn. Meanwhile, reality:

Originally Posted by richlevy

... a girl with no prior record was strip searched based on hearsay from a fellow student. The drug in question was ibuprofin.

She was a kid. Therefore she must be hiding drug in her cunt? After all, something must be done about humans taking ibuprofen. We must protect the Tylenol industry?

There's got to be more to this story to get to the Supreme Court.

[xoxoxoBruce]

"How is a school administrator supposed to know?" Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. asked. "He sees a white pill and doesn't know if it is something terribly harmful, even deadly, or if it's prescription-strength ibuprofen."

If he saw the pill he should know what it was, but from what I've read he saw nothing and was working on hearsay.

She won last year before the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled that the strip-search of an eighth-grader was unreasonable and unconstitutional and said that school officials who ordered the search were liable for damages.

That's how it got to the Supremes.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

If he saw the pill he should know what it was, but from what I've read he saw nothing and was working on hearsay.

I was wrong according to the article I read today. The principal actually did see the pills and knew the were ibuprofen before the hearsay that they belonged to this girl.
So he ordered the strip search actually knowing it was ibuprofen, not an illegal substance. Stone the fucker.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Stone the fucker.

Yup. Right. Forking. Now.

Just thought of something - Is he still working? working there?
Damn, just damn.

[Razzmatazz13]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I was wrong according to the article I read today. The principal actually did see the pills and knew the were ibuprofen before the hearsay that they belonged to this girl.
So he ordered the strip search actually knowing it was ibuprofen, not an illegal substance. Stone the fucker.

In school, drugs are drugs. You can't have legal or illegal drugs on your person. You get the same punishment for either. I got in trouble in elementary school once because my mom gave me one of those lollipops that help sore throats before I left. I always got to school long before class started, so I was finishing it in the hallway and a teacher told me to get rid of the candy. I told her what it was and she informed me that I needed to throw it away immediately and not bring any in ever again. Luckily for me, that teacher knew me very well...otherwise I'm sure I'd have a record for substance abuse or something at this point.

It was a common joke among us friends in the marching band that we had to hide our band bag (the backpack which holds anything and everything) because it had ibuprofen, midol, and excedrine for when we needed them.


Actually, in our school you're not allowed to carry water bottles either. It's worth detention I think? We all used to do it anyway. Supposedly kids used to put vodka in the bottles or other clear alcohols...and "teachers can't tell the difference". We decided it was worth the risk. Anyone wanted to tell me I was breaking a law, and they could test any part of me or the water bottle that they would like...they weren't going to find anything, and I was tired of passing out from heat exhaustion in class because some stupid teacher got her jollies off by refusing me a bathroom/water fountain break.

Similarly sick of going to the nurse and being told she only had baby tylenol to give me for a migrane...no thanks I'll hide some excedrine in my purse.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by tw

I just told my local police that you have kiddy porn. Your police will arrest you, take your family away, strip search you looking for porn in body cavities, and ... well something must be done about kiddy porn.

They can do whatever they like looking for whatever illegal contraband they might think I have. I have nothing to hide.

[Alluvial]

It strikes me that the authority of the school should be for educational matters, not police matters. If the vice principal was concerned that the girl was carrying something illegal, he should have involved the police.

I was surprised to find out that "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply to minors WRT drug crimes. One kid can claim another was using drugs and the first kid can be arrested based on that. I found that out a few years ago.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

They can do whatever they like looking for whatever illegal contraband they might think I have. I have nothing to hide.

Out of interest, have you ever had your house searched by the police?


One of my closest friends was busted by the police (drug squad) on the basis of a 'malicious informant'. They found nothing; there was nothing to find. But they seriously broke the fuck out of his door. And they threw his things about with total disregard. Dragged out his drawers, emptied shit onto the floor. Went through his dirty laundry basket. Pulled the backs off his speakers (common place to hide stuff), went through the bins outside, everywhere, looking for evidence of cultivation or possession.

He wasn't in at the time. He arrived back at his house to find them just finished. They gave him a form to sign and apologised for the inconvenience and off they went. Having ransacked his house, busted the door, dismantled his speakers, rifled through his personal possessions and thrown his stuff on the floor. Having nothing to hide doesn't in any way protect you from having your privacy violated. An enforced search is an enforced search. It happens without warning, and for those who are searched it's often quite a shocking experience.

In theory, there needs to be more than one thing pointing to a suspect for a search to go ahead; but my friend had the (mis)fortune to live on a block where people had been known to grow. His address was the second factor.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Out of interest, have you ever had your house searched by the police?

I don't know about the rest of them, but a cop I know enjoys this aspect of his job immensely. It's a big joke (about the state he'll leave it in) whenever someone sends him in the house to look for something.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Out of interest, have you ever had your house searched by the police?

No, but I've had the house trashed by thieves. I don't think there's a whole lot of difference.

I was once reported for living in a defacto relationship (with Daryl) while getting student allowance and other benefits, by some anonymous person. This was a big problem because at the time I wasn't actually living with Daryl, and our relationship wasn't such that I could ask him to help financially while it was sorted out. Never the less, the authorities took the word of some 'informant' over mine for a period of time.

While it was a problem for me, ultimately I am not complaining because so many people actually do rort the system and need to be disconnected.

This goes to my belief that in some circumstances it's better to be safe than sorry.