Some SA Apartments Banning Tattoos

xoxoxoBruce · 10-02-2007, 06:26 PM

San Antonio? Nope, do not want.

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It's against the law for landlords to discriminate based on the color of a person's skin. But can they reject you because of what's on your skin?
Some San Antonio apartment complexes are refusing to rent to people with tattoos and body piercings.

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Frankel, and his partners, have purchased numerous upscale apartment complexes in San Antonio and Dallas, where they've also banned pierced eyebrows and tongues. Tenants can't have more than one nose piercing, or more than five earrings.

Local fair housing officials say the rules may be unusual, but they are not illegal.

"Refusing to rent to somebody because they have tattoos may be unfair, but it's not discrimination under the fair housing act, unless the tattoos are specific to the person's religion or national origin," says Sandy Tamez of the San Antonio Fair Housing Council.

Aliantha · 10-02-2007, 06:33 PM

Jesus, how much business are they prepared to lose?

Unless of course they are in a very conservative neighbourhood I guess.

binky · 10-03-2007, 01:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Aliantha

Jesus, how much business are they prepared to lose?

Unless of course they are in a very conservative neighbourhood I guess.

In Calabasas, CA there is a law being debated that would make it illegal to smoke in YOUR OWN apartment, even on your balcony. Landlords, upon a tenant moving out, would have to rent each apartment as a non-smoking unit. Now, I'm a non-smoker, but this seems pretty ridiculous, and seems to be punitive toward lower income people, who can't afford to buy (a $600,000 plus) house in this area

HungLikeJesus · 10-04-2007, 10:02 AM

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Originally Posted by Aliantha

Jesus, how much business are they prepared to lose?

Unless of course they are in a very conservative neighbourhood I guess.

You talking' to me?

If you have an exclusive product, that does not limit its appeal, but makes it rather stand out amongst a sea of otherwise similar competitors.

As an example, people spend a lot of money for organic food because they've been convinced, without any real data, that it's somehow better than non-organic. In reality, the opposite is probably true and they are paying more for an inferior, and potentially dangerous, product.

Cloud · 10-02-2007, 07:01 PM

I heard about this. I sure wouldn't want to live there.

don't qualify either, of course.

Aliantha · 10-02-2007, 07:45 PM

I would be too Cloud.

orthodoc · 10-02-2007, 08:27 PM

They're a private business, and they're obviously targetting a particular market (the non-tattooed-non-pierced market!:p ). If the market isn't there, they'll have to change their business plan. If it is, what's the problem?

Someone else could try the concept of a tattoos-and-piercings-only building!

Aliantha · 10-02-2007, 08:47 PM

People with tattoos don't discriminate against people without them (as a rule)

orthodoc · 10-02-2007, 09:24 PM

The issue isn't discrimination (in the legal sense). It's a private business tailoring its product to a certain market.

Landlords may refuse to permit pets in their units. Is this discrimination against pet owners?

xoxoxoBruce · 10-02-2007, 09:37 PM

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Is this discrimination against pet owners?

Yes it is... but it's also legal.

bluecuracao · 10-02-2007, 09:42 PM

I wonder how it works exactly. What if they don't see your tattoos and/or piercings when you sign the lease? What if you get tattoos/piercings while living in one of their buildings?

Aliantha · 10-02-2007, 09:40 PM

Well some pet owners would say so, however, I think there's a slight difference here.

For one thing, tattoos are found on people from all walks of life, and they don't generally cause any harm to anyone else (the tattos I mean).

This is a thinly veiled attempt to say, 'we think people with tattoos are unsavory and we don't want them in our building because they're likely to wreck the place'. Admittedly there was a time when tattoos were the hallmark of bikees (not bikers) etc and in that regard, it would probably be silly to disregard a group of people who are notoriously violent and likely to be involved in illegal activities. This however, is not the case anymore.

Who would like to bet that soon enough, someone will want to move in there, but they've got a tattoo which they'll spend a lot of time and effort covering up, or maybe it's one that isn't anywhere anyone would likely see. I wonder what sort of controversy the landlords will have to deal with then.

I don't buy the tailoring the product to a certain market. That's just a cover.

orthodoc · 10-02-2007, 10:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Aliantha

For one thing, tattoos are found on people from all walks of life, and they don't generally cause any harm to anyone else (the tattos I mean).

Tattoos aren't found on people (like some sort of birthmark); they're a choice.

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Admittedly there was a time when tattoos were the hallmark of bikees (not bikers) etc and in that regard, it would probably be silly to disregard a group of people who are notoriously violent and likely to be involved in illegal activities. This however, is not the case anymore.

Visible tattoos and multiple piercings do tend to be over-represented among populations who are likely to be involved in violence or illegal activities; ask any police officer or ER doctor. It's too bad for the hard-working, law-abiding tattooed and pierced population, but there it is.

The quoted article doesn't ban all piercings, just more than one nose ring, more than five earrings (presumably in one ear), and eyebrow and tongue piercings. Maybe there's a concern about gang markings. Maybe there are other concerns we don't know about.

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Who would like to bet that soon enough, someone will want to move in there, but they've got a tattoo which they'll spend a lot of time and effort covering up, or maybe it's one that isn't anywhere anyone would likely see. I wonder what sort of controversy the landlords will have to deal with then.

If someone with a visible tattoo wants in badly enough, he/she will have the choice of covering it up or getting rid of it. If the no-tat-limited-piercing policy is stipulated in the lease, then people with hidden tattoos who sign will be in breach of contract. I don't see any controversy.

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I don't buy the tailoring the product to a certain market. That's just a cover.

A cover for what? A conspiracy to prevent upscale tattooed and pierced people from living in a particular, privately owned upscale apartment building?

Aliantha · 10-02-2007, 10:30 PM

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Originally Posted by orthodoc

Tattoos aren't found on people (like some sort of birthmark); they're a choice.

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So what's your point?

Visible tattoos and multiple piercings do tend to be over-represented among populations who are likely to be involved in violence or illegal activities; ask any police officer or ER doctor. It's too bad for the hard-working, law-abiding tattooed and pierced population, but there it is.

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Would that be because the average age of people in ER's etc would be in the same demographic that also now has embraced the idea of body art?  I guess I'll have to go ask a doctor or a police officer about that one.

The quoted article doesn't ban all piercings, just more than one nose ring, more than five earrings (presumably in one ear), and eyebrow and tongue piercings. Maybe there's a concern about gang markings. Maybe there are other concerns we don't know about.

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So what's the difference between one piercing and five or where you choose to pierce?  I notice they haven't mentioned clitoral piercings or penises.  Maybe because they don't expect to be seeing them?

A cover for what? A conspiracy to prevent upscale tattooed and pierced people from living in a particular, privately owned upscale apartment building?

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A cover for what is likely to be found discrimination

I'm guessing you don't have any piercings or tattoos?

orthodoc · 10-02-2007, 10:45 PM

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Originally Posted by Aliantha

I'm guessing you don't have any piercings or tattoos?

If I have none, does that disqualify my opinion? Why? If I have some, why should I have to give you that information? It's irrelevant. Regardless of my personal state of ink/non-ink and/or piercing/nonpiercing, my point - which is that piercings and tattoos are a choice, not a condition of birth - is valid. A private business can make the choice not to do business with people who have chosen to decorate themselves in this way. Obviously they'll have fewer customers.

I suspect the intention is to avoid gang problems. I really don't think there's a conspiracy to discriminate against body art.

(Yes, I have some.)

10-02-2007, 06:33 PM	#2
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Jesus, how much business are they prepared to lose? Unless of course they are in a very conservative neighbourhood I guess. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-02-2007, 07:01 PM	#5
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	I heard about this. I sure wouldn't want to live there. don't qualify either, of course. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

10-02-2007, 07:45 PM	#6
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I would be too Cloud. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-02-2007, 08:27 PM	#7
orthodoc Not Suspicious, Merely Canadian Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,774	They're a private business, and they're obviously targetting a particular market (the non-tattooed-non-pierced market!:p ). If the market isn't there, they'll have to change their business plan. If it is, what's the problem? Someone else could try the concept of a tattoos-and-piercings-only building! __________________ The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Ghandi

10-02-2007, 08:47 PM	#8
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	People with tattoos don't discriminate against people without them (as a rule) __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-02-2007, 09:24 PM	#9
orthodoc Not Suspicious, Merely Canadian Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,774	The issue isn't discrimination (in the legal sense). It's a private business tailoring its product to a certain market. Landlords may refuse to permit pets in their units. Is this discrimination against pet owners? __________________ The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Ghandi

10-02-2007, 09:42 PM	#11
bluecuracao in a mood, not cupcake Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,034	I wonder how it works exactly. What if they don't see your tattoos and/or piercings when you sign the lease? What if you get tattoos/piercings while living in one of their buildings?

10-02-2007, 09:40 PM	#12
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Well some pet owners would say so, however, I think there's a slight difference here. For one thing, tattoos are found on people from all walks of life, and they don't generally cause any harm to anyone else (the tattos I mean). This is a thinly veiled attempt to say, 'we think people with tattoos are unsavory and we don't want them in our building because they're likely to wreck the place'. Admittedly there was a time when tattoos were the hallmark of bikees (not bikers) etc and in that regard, it would probably be silly to disregard a group of people who are notoriously violent and likely to be involved in illegal activities. This however, is not the case anymore. Who would like to bet that soon enough, someone will want to move in there, but they've got a tattoo which they'll spend a lot of time and effort covering up, or maybe it's one that isn't anywhere anyone would likely see. I wonder what sort of controversy the landlords will have to deal with then. I don't buy the tailoring the product to a certain market. That's just a cover. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

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