Merry F'in Christmas - I want a divorce.

[lookout123]

said Mrs Lookout. She just doesn't feel passion for me the way she thinks she should... so divorce is the obvious answer.

i am seriously freaking out right now. i truly love her and i could go on for pages... but i have a 4 1/2 year old son who is the bright spot of my life. I can't even imagine not waking up a couple doors down from him without hyperventilating. seriously. i can't even think straight.

just last week i mentioned to someone that i had absolutely everything i've ever dreamed of. A beautiful wife, a healthy son, a decent career, nice house... now i'll have the opportunity to sit in a crappy apartment crying my eyes out missing my wife and son with the gnawing realization that my sales abilities evaporate when i'm under family stress.

fuck.

[Beestie]

Holy shit.

I'm not even going to begin to act like I know what to say. All I can say at this point is that, in due time, you WILL get through this. And whatever we can offer you in terms of support, advise, admonitions or whatever is called for is yours for the taking - we'll do what we can to help you navigate your way through this difficult period.

I'm really sorry to hear this - whatever is going on, join with your wife to shield the child - don't deny or pretend, instead, acknowlege but minimize.

[Undertoad]

Dude! That sucks man... we are with you... the worst of this is the first week or two when you can't imagine your shit hanging together.

You can't imagine it now because it's like getting punched in the gut. Expect to go throught the five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. I was way better after the anger phase...

You will come out of it stronger and wiser. If you think your life was good before, it will be unimaginably better with someone who DOES have that kind of passion for you.

We are here guy, write about what moves you... you have the freedom to do that and our support.

here's my own divorce thread - a lot of people have good advice in it.

Two years later, things are way better now than when I was married. What a dumb loveless marriage! My big regret is that it went on as long as it did.

[Trilby]

Lookout, I don't know what to say to you because I want to make things right and I know nothing will do that at this moment. Some of us here in the Cellar, myself included twice, have gone through this particular hell and I know that I, for one, will be here for you. I know how much you love your wife. Now, remember: you deserve to be loved that much in return. My thoughts are with you and your son.

[Griff]

Crap. I'm sorry man. Listen to Tony, he laid it all out here as it went down and gets major props for dealing with it and moving on.

Is there any way you can get custody? After all, she is initiating this.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Damn.


I'm surprised....You have always said good things about her.....not even the usual husbandly gripes.
I suppose something had to happen since you've been on a roll at work with fun trips on the side.

Sometimes living in a garage and struggling to survive brings people together, as equal partners, with a common goal. But then he becomes the breadwinner and she becomes the wife/mother, jealousy rears it's ugly head. He's envious of her relative freedom and she's longing for the social interactions of the business world, but of course they are both wrong in that they don't (want to) see the whole picture.

Sorry, I'm babbling.....any indication of a paramour?....or career? You know, I have to get away from you so that I can (blank).

Realisticly, we here in the Cellar can't do anything for you except offer dubious advice. I say dubious because we can't know all the variables, only generalities.
But that said, there are people here who genuinely care and make an excellent sounding board. We have a sum total of experience that's incredible and can offer at least three possible solutions to any question in a heartbeat.

Besides, I'm nosey as hell, so keep me informed....please.

[lookout123]

she has been very successful in her chosen field for 16 years, in fact last year is the first time i ever made more $$$ than her. so this isn't a bored housewife thing.

boyfriend? she says no. but of course she would even if it was true. just kind of the way it works i guess. she says she just wants to be alone, but i know her past. she hasn't been alone (without an SO) ever. so with that knowledge i have to admit that there probably is someone that she is at least interested in, whether or not she has acted on it.

custody? that would be damn near impossible. she is a great mother, so i have nothing to counter the normal child-goes-to-the-mother rule. i could drag out skeletons from before the boy was born, but that would be pointless and only be negative for all of us. i sat in his room from about 3AM on this morning just weeping. i can't imagine a world where i don't hear him talking in his sleep from across the house. as i type i am listening to him hum the "Star Wars" theme and play with his toys.

the fact is that i love her. i am quite often "in love" with her. but not always. i think "in love" is just the warm fuzzy feeling that comes and goes with stress and happiness in life. she thinks we shouldn't be married because she really honestly loves me, but she isn't "in love" anymore. the truth is that we hit a rough stretch around every christmas because she always gets a bit depressed and starts drinking a little bit more... we've always made it through it before. but she always had an open mind about working things out before. now she has already figured out how we will handle little lookout's weekly schedule and things like that. she doesn't have an open mind towards working things out at all.

last night she was telling me that it is obvious there is no passion left because we don't do anything fun anymore. when we are together we just stare at each other... WTF??? we/she has laughed more this year than ever before. we went to europe/mexico/2 cruises/SoCo, etc. we've been averaging 2 nights a week just the two of us sitting out in the backyard by the fireplace laughing and being goofy, making plans, talking about worries. a week ago she booked a week for the three of us and my parents in disneyland. if she really had decided this "some time" ago - why would she have gone and booked a vacation for all of us? it just doesn't add up.

we aren't the passionate couple we were 6/7 years ago, but who is passionate ALL the time after the first few years, a child, etc? she still gets flowers and other surprises frequently, cards all the time, etc. so, we don't have to fight the urge to maul eachother whenever we're in the same room like we did in the beginning. isn't that what happens when relationships mature?

i'm really struggling right now with all of this. to make matters worse, i don't really have much of a support network to tap into right now. we're not letting anyone know anything until after Christmas - no point in spoiling it for everyone right? OUR friends are really mostly her friends. i have my three best friends back in illinois, but this is so far out of their arenas that the advice will be nil, and i'm not near them so i can't just go and commiserate. my friends here have all drifted away as our economic situation improved and theirs didn't. those that stuck around have disappeared for other reasons. i am seriously sitting here alone with my grief right now. i talked to the pastor of our church and he is great to talk to, but not someone i'm going to go hang out with to get me through this.

i've never had a problem being alone before, but it has been a long time since i even contemplated the possibility of it. i don't even know how to function as a single individual past the college/bar scene days. i'm one of those weird guys that didn't even daydream about not being burdened with a family. it just never occurred to me to think about it. i've had everything i ever wanted.

i was just having a conversation with someone about a week ago about goals and dreams. he was trying to get me to set some new goals and i was having a hard time. he just looked at me like i was an idiot when i said, "i have everything i've ever dreamed of. a beautiful, loving wife, an amazing child, a great career, a beautiful home, and some measure of financial security." what more is there except for more of the same?

[xoxoxoBruce]

if she really had decided this "some time" ago - why would she have gone and booked a vacation for all of us? it just doesn't add up.

OK, then if this is a recent idea she my be running it up the flag pole. Don't salute. Don't give up. Work on making the holidays as pleasant as you can and maybe it will subside if you can pull it off without making it look like a desperate attempt to win her over.... even though we both know it is.

You mentioned you were making an effort to triple your income this year. Could this be a test of whether she or the business comes first? Those trips you took, maybe you said something about difficulty of arranging your schedule to fit them in that made her think the business had become more important than she is. Yes, I'm grasping.

Extended passion is tricky. Too little and you're bored with me. Too much and you're an animal that treats me like a sex object. But more often than not I think it's a catch all excuse for something they can't (or won't) put their finger on.

It seems you've talked more about losing the boy than losing her. Is that an order of priority? Rank of importance? I ask because a friend of mine in this situation was like, she's leaving..oh well, but his 4-ish son going with her really tore him up. As it worked out, the boy spent the weekends with him and they have a great relationship. He'll graduate from Penn State this spring.

Maybe you should have protested the wet tee shirt contests?

[Clodfobble]

Lookout, I'm so incredibly sorry to hear this. Even going to counseling just "to humor you" is a start, IMHO. You'll obviously have many other things on your mind for quite awhile, but make sure you keep checking back with us occasionally for your own sanity--a virtual support net is better than none.

[footfootfoot]

Sucks like a pail of leeches.

There is something missing from this picture.

Hang tight, don't be rash.

[xoxoxoBruce]

i don't know if i mentioned it but we are going to see a councelor on Friday. she is just doing it to humor me though. she had the appointment booked just for herself before she dropped the bombshell on me. this is a guy that we met with a year or so ago to help us with communication skills. she walked away from her sessions with him really feeling good about life and came to grips with some of her past issues. if she can keep some semblance of an open mind here it could be a good thing. or i could just be deluding myself.

Ya Gotta Believe! If you feel it's a waste of time, for whatever reason, it will be.
Go in there and do your honest best to make it work. Get the councelor on your side to help convince her that you're sincerely willing to work on any issues she has.
You know what you've got to lose. And no coulda/shoulda/woulda down the road. Go baby!

[Griff]

Is it possible that working on a second child freaked her out? She may have started getting visions of mini-vans and PTA meetings. Don't give up on her without a fight. She may just need to open her eyes to what she has.

You say she had some substance abuse issues in the past and has started to drink more now. Is it possible that she is once again having difficulties with that? Would you pick up on it if she had started using her drug of choice again? It might explain why she is making this irrational choice that is so grevious all around. I'm sorry to read your news Lookout. These things are always painful, no matter what. Your situation seems especially so. Hang in there, big guy.

[lumberjim]

dude. don't give up. Don't let her give up. make sure she know you won;t give up. yell and scream, kick , fight, accuse, do everything you can to keep her. and if that doesn;t work, put a hit out on her.

laugh, dammit.

[Brett's Honey]

You and your son will get through this eventually if you must, but I hope you don't have to. Make the most of this time that you'll be together before Christmas, doing whatever you can to get her to think twice about a divorce. If you end up living apart, it may be much harder to get her to consider not divorcing.
Nobody can ever say that I didn't have good reason to divorce my husband (the father of my kids), and I love my current husband, but in hindsight, I wish I had taken a different road. I believe the main reason I went through with the divorce was because of someone I'd became involved with (at work) pushing me so hard to go through with it, to cut off communication with my husband and to only focus on why I should divorce him.
And although it kind of contridicts what I just said about making the most of this time, there is one thing about most women that I believe is true - I'm just not sure if I can word it correctly. It's about the "thrill of the chase". She knows you want her, that she can have you. If the time comes when you must seperate, maybe it would be a benefit to you, for her to believe that you're just fine, and that it would actually require work on her part to "get" you.
Cellar ladies...help me out here.....and if it's not good advice, speak up! I want to help, not make things worse by any means!
Good luck. Agreeing to counseling means there's hope, even if she's not serious about it at first. The only other thing that I know for a fact is that my son is MUCH happier now that me and the ex get along great. He was miserable when we continued to fight and bad-mouth each other after the divorce.