The balance between rights and reponsibilities

[BigV]

Cellar Meta Users, threads, etiquette, posting, usage, forums, why this place matters or doesn't

I do believe this place matters. Therefore, I care when there's a problem. Some of you may not even view these as problems at all. I'm a born fixer, but I don't think I can fix these problems. But even if I can't fix them, I can point them out.

Look, I understand "Everybody Poops". Normal. Necessary. What's neither normal nor necessary is wallowing in it, making more of it, flinging it. This BS, this is a problem.

Insults - give it your best shot!

Is Duck_Duck Dying?

QUACK! This just in!!!

Who is the most hated dweller?

The Mercenary: Asshole?

Poll: does Cloud start too many threads?

etc, etc. Why all the personal attacks threads? What's the purpose of all the hatin'? How is it constructive?

The whole clone thread fad. Maybe one in ten or one in twenty gets a laugh. The very concept is defined by some other (presumably) valid thread, and if the clone is ... what? Successful? It makes a contribution? Mostly, it's just more noise; they increase the noise to signal ratio. Clutter.

And most especially the vitriol. The hatred. The meanness. The personal attacks. In this post I won't repeat the names I've called out elsewhere. I've made a mess in this area too, and I'm sorry. The substance matters, the content matters. Whether or not a point of view has unanimous support is not important. The big meaty ideas never have that kind of support, and rarely do the smaller lighter ones. Consensus is not imperative or even desirable.

But the quality of the discussion as the dissenting voices are clamoring for attention is raised when civility and respect are present. And the quality of the cellar is, frankly, *completely* dependent on the quality of the discussions. It's not a big fotobucket of IoTDs. It's not a filesharing repository. It's not place where individuals come to play games *alone*. And it didn't used to be a cage match to the death no holds barred poo flinging neener neener fuck you back - athon.

It is about the conversations. When the shouting starts, the communication suffers. Eventually one of them stops, and lately, the shouting has won. Our cellar, we, lose when that happens. We lose members, we lose connection, we lose communication, we lose the cellar.

Yeah, I love the First Amendment. You can say what you want. But any right comes with a corresponding responsibility. There is an unavoidable tension in that relationship. And they're proportional--big important rights bear heavy responsibilities. Lately its been all Rights all the time and precious little attention to Responsibility. I can personally say what I want, and I have a personal responsibility to exercise, guard and value that right. I exercise it with posts like these. I guard it by accepting others' use of the same right. And I value it by using it well, not using it for shit-work.

I value the cellar for the interesting, informative, useful, entertaining, stimulating conversations and relationships found here, and the good people making those posts. The cellar is a nice place and I will work to keep it a nice place. I will not stand idly by while it is demoted to a useless slag fest of libelous insults.

[Cloud]

A very thoughtful and well set out post.

As a noob, I'm still trying to find my place in the Cellar. Somewhere on the continuum from:

Mean & Malicious -----> Spirited Discussion ----> Lighthearted Fluff

I've noticed that those types of threads are going on for ten pages while the news items we used to discuss for pages are going ignored.
I'm not talking just about mine, I could care less about that... just the quality of what this site, as a whole, seems to want to do, is in the toilet.
I'm not only talking about the news.
We used to talk about people's problems and lives, now there are a few who just want to go around doing harm and following those they don't like around being unpleasant because they have envy and low self esteem.

[Flint]

I like my clone threads. One thing they aren't is: designed to be taken serisouly.

[HungLikeJesus]

BigV -- I agree, with the exception that I do like Our Man Flint's clone threads. I generally find them amusing, and not mean-spirited.

I also agree with RK.

More zen, less rage -- that's my motto.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Flint

I like my clone threads. One thing they aren't is: designed to be taken serisouly.

Originally Posted by HLJ

BigV -- I agree, with the exception that I do like Our Man Flint's clone threads. I generally find them amusing, and not mean-spirited.

I also agree with RK.

More zen, less rage -- that's my motto.

wrt clone threads:

I could have been more discriminating in my post. The clone threads don't approach the level of destructiveness represented by the stupid hateful hollerin goin on.

I called them clutter. An annoyance, to me. When trying to filter through the cellar data stream, they present two areas of difficulty for me. One, by themselves, they present a lot more stuff to wade through. Two, they offer a place for the corrosive hatin' to happen. I don't have an answer to this, or even think it rises to the level of a "problem".

I have specific instances of posts and threads I find much more troublesome than the clone threads. The clone threads I can disregard with impunity. Upon reflection, they don't belong together.

[Aliantha]

You know what V, I think you're right. Unfortunately, I think things are a bit messy at the moment. There are some pretty interesting threads in the politics forum. I think it's just this particular area that's a bit untidy at the moment...for the most part.

Maybe people will get it all out soon and things will return to normal.

[Griff]

I'm sorry for feeding the trolls and not posting any good content lately. I'd also like to mention that Merc has cleaned up his act lately and I appreciate that.

[lumberjim]

BIG, I know you mean well here. I think it's a clear indication that you truly do care, and are willing to work constructively toward the betterment and embiggening of the cellar as a whole.(hole) I'm with you 100%.

wait for it.....


BUT.

the threads created will die off quickly if they are generally seen to be useless. the work will be done within those threads. it's going to take more than one or two very well thought out statements of policy from one or few users. it's an all day, every day thing that has to be done.

I, for one, have resolved to refrain from multiple exchanges of flaming. once or twice in a thread, just to make my voice heard/ opinion known and then i'll write the prick off. I think people like to laugh....and if it's not funny anymore, i'm not interested.

[SteveDallas]

Good advice.. just don't feed the trolls. No, not even some bread crumbs.

[zippyt]

Cant we just fling them a stale cruton just watch them Flail about ????

I agree with V , but Lj as well ,

[Flint]

I appreciate the intent behind "don't feed the trolls" (it's good advice) but the underlying principle is not to legitimize what they do. Paradoxically, by taking it serisouly, you legitimize it. My best advice is to maintain one's tongue firmly in cheek at all times.

[zippyt]

My best advice is to maintain one's tongue firmly in cheek at all times.

Damn it FLINT !! I thaught I felt some thing pokeing me in the BUTT last nite !!!!