Are you Screwed - National ID

[tw]

Since we have no National ID system so that you can protect yourself, and if you are one of 13,000, then you are screwed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/17/te...gy/17IDEN.html

This was discussed in the Politics board as A National ID Card

[tw]

We use social security numbers for identification. But they were not setup then nor is it a valid method today for identification:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/20/national/20FRAU.html

[elSicomoro]

Of course, when SS was set up, you couldn't collect until 65, and the avg. lifespan at the time was what? In the high 50s or low 60s? Now it's 77 or so?

Along with the ID issue, file Social Security under "When good ideas go bad."

[Griff]

ACLU update I got in my e-mail today...

"These are extraordinary times for civil libertarians, which make for strange bedfellows. Witness a letter to the editor in a recent issue of The New York Times co-written by Nadine Strossen, President of the ACLU, and Phyllis Schlafly, President of the archly conservative Eagle Forum.

The ACLU, the Eagle Forum, and 40 other concerned organizations have come together to form a diverse coalition opposed to efforts by state motor vehicle officials to create a national identification system (national ID) through the bureaucratic back door of state drivers' licenses.

Each of these groups believes that national IDs -- even in the guise of standardized drivers' licenses -- are a serious threat to our privacy, liberty and safety. "


http://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy/N...D_Feature.html

[Griff]

"Hackers posing as employees of the Ford Motor Credit Company have in recent months harvested a trove of 13,000 credit reports — a virtual one-stop shop for fraud and identity theft — with data on consumers in affluent neighborhoods across the country."

Thankfully, I have nothing and live in Appalachia. Ya'll can't tell the difference but this heres a kerosene powered computater.

[elSicomoro]

They make very good points, although I disagree with them on #4. One of the points of number one is particularly compelling:

"Terrorists and criminals will continue to be able to obtain -- by legal and illegal means -- the documents needed to get a government ID, such as birth certificates. Yes, these new documents will have data like digital fingerprints on them, but that won’t prove real identity – just that the carrier has obtained what could easily be a fraudulent document."

It's a good point IMO. So, just how do we determine that John W. Smith of the Kensington section of Philadelphia is indeed John W. Smith of Kensington? The easy answer is DNA...but then the issue of discrimination based on DNA could come into play. A new law, or a new statute of the Civil Rights Act would be necessary (again, IMO). As I mentioned in the previous NID discussion, I can imagine a "Gattaca" (spelled right this time!) scenario.

[Griff]

'Reason #4: ID cards would function as “internal passports” that monitor citizens’ movements
Americans have long had a visceral aversion to building a society in which the authorities could act like totalitarian sentries and demand “your papers please!” And that everyday intrusiveness would be conjoined with the full power of modern computer and database technology. When a police officer or security guard scans your ID card with his pocket bar-code reader, for example, will a permanent record be created of that check, including the time and your location? How long before office buildings, doctors’ offices, gas stations, highway tolls, subways and buses incorporate the ID card into their security or payment systems for greater efficiency? The end result could be a nation where citizens’ movements inside their own country are monitored and recorded through these “internal passports.”'

I don't know bro... I hope you're right.

[tw]

Using state driver licenses or Social Security numbers for or as the basis of an ID system is fraut with problems. Both systems are constructed for government use. Neither has features delegated for the individual's needs - especially ID protection. A National ID and Protection (both words make SS and driver's licenses useless) system must operate independent of those other systems - to work properly AND to protect the rights of the individual.

We have no current system that protects individuals from ID theft. Current systems have no database that an individual can use for protection. Unfortunately these reasons and underlying philosophies are too complex for those with political agendas to appreciate - at least until too many of them become victims.

If politicians were treated as common people, then identify theft would happen to them - and then we would see them deal with the issue. In the meantime we will see many issued new credit card numbers, without knowing that again, massive personal information was stolen from their database.

I believe this theft of 13,000 IDs in the Ford database is rare - only because it was disclosed. I have long suspected that many credit cards have assigned new customer numbers because their databases were also compromised. Has your credit card unilaterally assigned you a new card with a new number? Then suspect your SS number in their database may have been stolen.

[elSicomoro]

I understand the rationale behind #4...and appreciate the concerns raised. As weak as this sounds, the only thing I can say to that is to include law that bans the ID's use in tandem with non-governmental services (although that could cause an issue in the world of public transit). Severe criminal penalties would result. (Like I said...weak.)

Here's my stance on the Man. The Man probably already knows what I'm doing, or at least has a decent idea. I believe there are already people among us watching what we say and do, beyond ordinary citizens. Now, I'm not looking at it from a "conspiracy theory" point of view here. But I figure the Man has to keep tabs on all 280 million of us somehow. I'm also ASSUMING that the police already note us anytime we're in their custody (be it a pullover, as a witness to a case, etc.), and I'm sure that this information can be shared with other police departments. Some probably do it more than others.

Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm completely wrong, or maybe it's already worse than I've stated. But from my current point of view, the new ID system couldn't be any more of a control than the ones already present, weak as they may appear.

It makes me think of a quote from Trent Reznor: "The slave thinks he is released from bondage only to find a stronger set of chains."

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to head back to the bunker before the government turns their mind-control device on again. In fact, Dershowitz and Fareed Zakaria from Newsweek are talking about domestic intelligence gathering right now on Hardball.