My check engine light is on

[Cloud]

and the car (2001 Honda Civic/54,000 miles) is intermittently sputtering or jolting. I took it to the dealer, because I had to replace the airbag, and they told me this:

Engine code P1519. They recommended that I update the computer, which they did, and I drove it off. They also said that if the problem reoccured, I would have to replace the PCM (computer); to the tune of about $1,000.

Well, guess what? It reoccurred. The next morning I drove it about 10 miles. At first the the light came on and the sputtering occured. Then the light went off and it was fine. Arrgggh! I hate intermittent shit and also electrical problems!

I shouldn't have to replace the computer at less than 55,000 miles, should I? Do I have any other options?

[Shawnee123]

Put a piece of black electrical tape over the "check engine" light. It will eventually burn out on its own.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Cloud

Engine code P1519. They recommended that I update the computer, which they did, and I drove it off. They also said that if the problem reoccured, I would have to replace the PCM (computer); to the tune of about $1,000.

At what point does he read the manual? DTC 1519 reports a Idle Air Control Valve Circuit Failure. How curious. That is also what your sputtering engine is doing. If the valve is stuck open, then too much air is leaking into the intake.

The valve is controlled by coolant. A cold engine must run faster. When the engine gets warm, then the valve must close so that the engine idles at a slower speed.

So what did he do? Updating a computer is equivalent to the computer tech who constantly updates the BIOS. He does it because it is easy, does not require thinking through a problem, and actually does nothing. It is called shotgunning. Just keep replacing things until something works. Replace the easy things so that thinking need not be done.

Intermittently sputtering especially at the point which coolant finally obtains maximum hot explains a periodically stuck Idle Air Control Valve would cause. How curious. The computer also identifies a failed Idle Control Valve. Located where the throttle cable connects to a pipe from air cleaner. The Control valve is just after the throttle plate - where the throttle cable connects to and rotates that plate. Easy to access. Easy to test.

Does the mechanic know the problem is intermittent? A symptom that is important. Does it happen just as the car is getting to full hot coolant temperature? When it happens further defines the suspect.

When you take your computer to a repair shop, does he automatically replace the power supply and blame it on no surge protector? He is just replacing parts in a desperate hope that the problem will be solved or disappear. It is also called shotgunning.

BTW is your coolant level full? Did you recently have the anti-freeze flushed (which must be done every two years or else the glycol eats engine parts). Low coolant and the resulting air bubble that rises to the back of the engine can also cause this problem.

A replacement control valve is maybe $250. Checking the coolant level? Priceless - near zero dollars.

Airliners crash more often than a PCM fail. Most PCM failures (from companies that were letting the engineers design them which GM was not) are mechanics doing shotgunning because electricity is just too confusing.

[Gravdigr]

And it begins.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
now.

[Cloud]

I had the coolant flushed several months ago; and yes, it seems to sputter right when the engine starts to warm up.

I hate, hate, hate car problems!

[skysidhe]

I was told once that a change in fuel or even if the fuel door is open even a slight bit the check engine light will come on. I remember I had changed fuel and opened and shut the door on the gas cap and made sure the gas cap was snug. The light went out.

It's probably not your car's problem but it's something to put away for reference. I guess.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Cloud

I had the coolant flushed several months ago; and yes, it seems to sputter right when the engine starts to warm up.

With computers and electronics, solving car problems has become significantly easier. Easier when one learns proper diagnostic techniques. Much more difficult if one still shotguns.

Hondas have a small air release valve on engine (just in front of the throttle pulley that the throttle cable connects to). In every Honda, engine design is so sophisticated that opening this little valve means water (coolant) is at the top of that valve when coolant is exactly at the correct level in the radiator. The idea: fill the radiator until water flows out of that little air release valve. Then no air pockets can form inside an engine block. An air bubble is one possiblity (but normally should not happen).

You can open the radiator cap (when engine is cool) to see yourself if coolant levels are accurate.

Your symptoms all point to a coolant problem related the Idler Control valve. Maybe low coolant (because the mechanic did not know how to change coolant). Or a mechanic did a fast flush (which should never be done because you will have water pump failure about 1 year later). Or maybe a failure created by putting wrong coolant into the car. Maybe an Idler control valve failure that coincided with coolant change.

By following the evidence (based only one what was provided here), nobody should have updated computer software or discussed replacing the computer.

BTW, the Car Guys (the tappet Bros Tom and Ray) discuss this constantly with routine laughing. That check engine light always reports problems accurately. Mechanics and others who remain in denial are a serious problem. Mechanics often because they did not do what they are expected and trained to do. Honda routinely sends mechanics to Japan for training and retraining.

In your case, Honda even provides a flow chart for how to find that problem. Nothing in that flow chart says start by blaming the computer. IOW you may want to find a more responsible dealership.

[spudcon]

I had the same problem when I could no longer get fuel without ethanol. It ruined the fuel sender in my gas tank also. But on the positive side, I get less miles per gallon with the ethanol blend, and it costs more.

[classicman]

That light is telling you to clip the wire and trade it in.

Just a thought.

Be back later - on my way to hell at the moment.

[Cloud]

Exactly. The dealer I don't think even looked at my valves or drove my car. They just updated the software, and marked my invoice "OK to trade."

WTF? OK to trade? I guess they think if it's not fixable, I just trade it in and get a new one.

Which, I suppose, if it's really not fixable, I'd have to do, but not with them.

[Undertoad]

The Cellar Car's check engine light is on. For a few days the engine was running poorly, like one of the cylinders didn't have full power. Maybe a fuel injector is clogged.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Could be a plug misfiring.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The Cellar Car's check engine light is on. For a few days the engine was running poorly, like one of the cylinders didn't have full power. Maybe a fuel injector is clogged.

Without the engine code numbers, any answer would be wild speculation.

Some cars require a OBD reader. Others will flash the error code on the dash when a jumper wire to attached to a plug underneath the dash. Montgomery County library often has books for each car model that would describe how to get the "DTC" code.

Without that code, I could think of at least 12 different items that would explain that behavior. The actual list is far longer. First get the DTC number.

[Undertoad]

I think we discussed this last time? But access to the Cellar Car's OBD jumper is behind a big plastic plate to the right of the accelerator, and unlike every other 1995 Maxima, it's riveted on instead of screwed on. I can't figure out how to get this thing off. It doesn't just pull off.

[squirell nutkin]

drill out the rivets and them replace them with screws.

If I had a nickel for every rivet I've drilled out... maybe I could buy a six pack of very good beer. and a pizza. but that's probably it.

I always thought the check engine light meant it was time to write a check for the engine.