Well, hate's now a crime, even if you don't do anything...

Troubleshooter · 02-20-2005, 04:07 PM

I'm not a big fan of the modern evangelicals, but this may be really interesting to watch.

Whole thing here .

"In the fall, Philadelphia police charged Marcavage with various misdemeanors, as well as felony counts of riot, criminal conspiracy, and -- most controversially -- "ethnic" intimidation, Pennsylvania's version of a hate crime. Homosexuals, as of 2002, are given protection under the state's Ethnic Intimidation Act."

richlevy · 02-20-2005, 09:46 PM

My understanding of free speech is that limits can be set on time place and manner. This is why we now have 'free speech zones'. IMO, the people who think this guy should be allowed to use a bullhorn during someone elses event had better understand that they are going to allow gay rights groups to use a bullhorn at the next Christian Coalition rally.

The law is not supposed to censor content, just the manner in which the content is delivered.

slang · 02-20-2005, 10:09 PM

I think if that dumbass showed up at anything that I was attending and shouted the speaker down with a bullhorn.....I might commit a real "hate" crime.

Beestie · 02-20-2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

Homosexuals, as of 2002, are given protection under the state's Ethnic Intimidation Act."

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought we were all entitled to equal protection under the law. Making an act a bigger crime (via harsher penalties) when commited against a member of a certain group relative to someone not a member of that group constitutes, imo, unequal protection under the law and, therefore, is unconstitutional. Radar? Anyone? Bueller?

xoxoxoBruce · 02-20-2005, 10:40 PM

Well we are all equal....but pigs are more equal than others.

Elspode · 02-20-2005, 11:09 PM

Around here, we are frequently exposed to that holy fellow, Fred Phelps . This is a guy who sponsors demonstrations at the funerals of AIDS victims, screaming through a bullhorn at the greiving families and friends.

I've seen them picketing at a Melissa Etheridge concert, and heard countless tales of their psychopathic religious fervor.

There's a very, very special room in Fred's Hell for him and his ilk. He's getting up in years, and I hope to be able to attend a protest at his funeral...silent, reverent, and thankful that he's gone, and hoping that his brainwashed adult children won't be as effective at spreading his vile version of God as he has been.

iamthewalrus109 · 02-21-2005, 11:08 AM

With the 60's social movements, great strides have been made to give dispensation to minority groups, stemming from the African-American civil rights movement. Once it is done in one place it extends to groups of every shade and orientation. Accordingly, the trend has been for federal and district court judges to legislate from the bench, viewing legislative bodies to slow and bureuacratic to deal effectively with social issues. This trend has lead to a new legal oligarchy, one that sometimes countervenes the Constitution. One has to ask themselves, "Is this trend, interpertation, and tweaking of American Constitutional law, justified?" This includes quota programs, and welfare criteria.

-Walrus

xoxoxoBruce · 02-21-2005, 05:52 PM

If I call a white man a nigger, is that a hate crime? If so, against whom? Is it any different than calling him a pig or an asshole?

Now what if it's a black man? Nigger, pig, asshole...I've truely insulted the man with any of those and would expect him to kick my ass.

Hate crime? Bullshit!

404Error · 02-21-2005, 10:15 PM

Quote:

You're free to speak your mind in public, but not free to intimidate somebody because their race or religion is different than yours.

Since when is homosexuality a race or religion? Or even an ethnic group?

Radar · 02-22-2005, 12:06 AM

As much as I hate to agree with the intolerant scumbag assholes harassing gay people, ALL OF AMERICA IS A FREE SPEECH ZONE!!! We don't require the permission of government to peacefully gather on public grounds, and a cop has no legitimate authority to tell us to break it up or to leave. Government has no grounds to censor the kind of message or the method of delivery.

All violent crimes are hate crimes. And hate crime legislation is a farse. It's an attempt to turn the government into the thought police. The legitimate role of government is to punish crimes, not motives. We have the right to hate anyone we want.

There is no difference in a crime where a man kills an old lady because he wants her purse, and in a crime where he kills her because she's Jewish. In either case she's equally dead. The crime is killing her, not hating her.

Homosexuality is not a race or an ethnic group, but it is something you're born as every bit as much as a race or ethic group. Being gay is like being black. You're born that way or you're not and nothing anyone says to the contrary has any validity.

Troubleshooter · 02-22-2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

Being gay is like being black. You're born that way or you're not and nothing anyone says to the contrary has any validity.

Hey, where's Sycamore when you need him?

xoxoxoBruce · 02-23-2005, 09:14 PM

Why? You need a gay take on this?

richlevy · 08-28-2005, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

Around here, we are frequently exposed to that holy fellow, Fred Phelps . This is a guy who sponsors demonstrations at the funerals of AIDS victims, screaming through a bullhorn at the greiving families and friends.

I've seen them picketing at a Melissa Etheridge concert, and heard countless tales of their psychopathic religious fervor.

There's a very, very special room in Fred's Hell for him and his ilk. He's getting up in years, and I hope to be able to attend a protest at his funeral...silent, reverent, and thankful that he's gone, and hoping that his brainwashed adult children won't be as effective at spreading his vile version of God as he has been.

Well, Fred has been at it again.

Quote:

The Rev. Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist in Kansas, contends that American soldiers are being killed in Iraq as vengeance from God for protecting a country that harbors gays. The church, which is not affiliated with a larger denomination, is made up mostly of Phelps' children, grandchildren and in-laws.

The church members carried signs and shouted things such as "God hates fags" and "God hates you."

About 10 church members protested near Smyrna United Methodist Church and nearly 20 stood outside the National Guard Armory in Ashland City. Members have demonstrated at other soldier funerals across the nation

It's too bad Pat Roberston called off the assassination squad, maybe he could have redirected them to Kansas. Phelps is an embarrassment to evangelicals (or is he a Pentacostal?), Christians, deists, and the human race in general.

Maybe we'll all get lucky and Phelps will tape an endorsement for the school board members who voted for Intelligent Design.

Elspode · 08-28-2005, 10:39 AM

Phelps is more than an embarassment. He is a certified, card carrying abomination. He is no more human than this keyboard I'm typing on. Ptui!

capnhowdy · 08-28-2005, 04:52 PM

[/quote]The big legal question is, has the DA overreached on the ethnic intimidation charge?[quote]
Overreached may be an understatement. I'd hate to be the prosecutor on this one. You'd have to fray the edges of the constitution to pull it off.

If one American has the right to chose any certain lifestyle, then his fellow American should have an equal right to tell the world that it pisses him off.

I nominate the Cellar for President. Hell, we'll run the country from down here. May be an improvement. UT, you up to it?

02-20-2005, 04:07 PM	#1
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	Well, hate's now a crime, even if you don't do anything... I'm not a big fan of the modern evangelicals, but this may be really interesting to watch. Whole thing here . "In the fall, Philadelphia police charged Marcavage with various misdemeanors, as well as felony counts of riot, criminal conspiracy, and -- most controversially -- "ethnic" intimidation, Pennsylvania's version of a hate crime. Homosexuals, as of 2002, are given protection under the state's Ethnic Intimidation Act." __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

02-20-2005, 09:46 PM	#2
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	My understanding of free speech is that limits can be set on time place and manner. This is why we now have 'free speech zones'. IMO, the people who think this guy should be allowed to use a bullhorn during someone elses event had better understand that they are going to allow gay rights groups to use a bullhorn at the next Christian Coalition rally. The law is not supposed to censor content, just the manner in which the content is delivered. __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama

02-20-2005, 10:40 PM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Well we are all equal....but pigs are more equal than others. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-20-2005, 11:09 PM	#6
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Around here, we are frequently exposed to that holy fellow, Fred Phelps . This is a guy who sponsors demonstrations at the funerals of AIDS victims, screaming through a bullhorn at the greiving families and friends. I've seen them picketing at a Melissa Etheridge concert, and heard countless tales of their psychopathic religious fervor. There's a very, very special room in Fred's Hell for him and his ilk. He's getting up in years, and I hope to be able to attend a protest at his funeral...silent, reverent, and thankful that he's gone, and hoping that his brainwashed adult children won't be as effective at spreading his vile version of God as he has been. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

02-21-2005, 11:08 AM	#7
iamthewalrus109 High Propagandist Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 111	Unequal protection under the law With the 60's social movements, great strides have been made to give dispensation to minority groups, stemming from the African-American civil rights movement. Once it is done in one place it extends to groups of every shade and orientation. Accordingly, the trend has been for federal and district court judges to legislate from the bench, viewing legislative bodies to slow and bureuacratic to deal effectively with social issues. This trend has lead to a new legal oligarchy, one that sometimes countervenes the Constitution. One has to ask themselves, "Is this trend, interpertation, and tweaking of American Constitutional law, justified?" This includes quota programs, and welfare criteria. -Walrus

02-20-2005, 10:09 PM	#3
slang St Petersburg, Florida Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,423	I think if that dumbass showed up at anything that I was attending and shouted the speaker down with a bullhorn.....I might commit a real "hate" crime.

02-21-2005, 05:52 PM	#8
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	If I call a white man a nigger, is that a hate crime? If so, against whom? Is it any different than calling him a pig or an asshole? Now what if it's a black man? Nigger, pig, asshole...I've truely insulted the man with any of those and would expect him to kick my ass. Hate crime? Bullshit! __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-22-2005, 12:06 AM	#10
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	As much as I hate to agree with the intolerant scumbag assholes harassing gay people, ALL OF AMERICA IS A FREE SPEECH ZONE!!! We don't require the permission of government to peacefully gather on public grounds, and a cop has no legitimate authority to tell us to break it up or to leave. Government has no grounds to censor the kind of message or the method of delivery. All violent crimes are hate crimes. And hate crime legislation is a farse. It's an attempt to turn the government into the thought police. The legitimate role of government is to punish crimes, not motives. We have the right to hate anyone we want. There is no difference in a crime where a man kills an old lady because he wants her purse, and in a crime where he kills her because she's Jewish. In either case she's equally dead. The crime is killing her, not hating her. Homosexuality is not a race or an ethnic group, but it is something you're born as every bit as much as a race or ethic group. Being gay is like being black. You're born that way or you're not and nothing anyone says to the contrary has any validity. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin Last edited by Radar; 02-22-2005 at 12:09 AM.

02-23-2005, 09:14 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Why? You need a gay take on this? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-28-2005, 10:39 AM	#14
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Phelps is more than an embarassment. He is a certified, card carrying abomination. He is no more human than this keyboard I'm typing on. Ptui! __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

08-28-2005, 04:52 PM	#15
capnhowdy Blatantly Homosapien Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 6,200	[/quote]The big legal question is, has the DA overreached on the ethnic intimidation charge?[quote] Overreached may be an understatement. I'd hate to be the prosecutor on this one. You'd have to fray the edges of the constitution to pull it off. If one American has the right to chose any certain lifestyle, then his fellow American should have an equal right to tell the world that it pisses him off. I nominate the Cellar for President. Hell, we'll run the country from down here. May be an improvement. UT, you up to it? __________________ Please type slowly. I can't read very fast............... and no holy water, please.

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