The wind up to Nov. 2nd

iamthewalrus109 · 09-07-2004, 01:09 PM

Cellar dwellers,

Now with both the conventionmercials over, we now slide and descend into the final weeks of a so called election. Speaking as one of many disaffected Repulican voters, I feel John Kerry's last round of reorg. stemming from GW's 13 point perecentage point bounce to be the flailings of a befuddled Washington insider. With the addition of Joe Lockhart, and bedside calls from Bill Clinton, it is another reinvention and retooling. Bush has already capitalized on this in his last speech, citing yet another Kerry "flip-flop". This entire format smacks of an Al Gore move. Instead of self help gurus and psychoanalysts being added to the team, Kerry wants to find foriegn policy leftovers and policital bag men.

Bush's invocation of "almighty God" in his speech is somehow accepted as truth, it's not votes it's divine selection. If Kerry was smart he would be able to capitalize on many of the declassifed documents released through Bill Gertz' new book "Treachery", some of which outline Bush's reluctance to deal with real threats to this country, as well as the new arms race we will find ourselves in. But that would distract us from the real issues, like hairdressers and and attendance reports, no what a shame that would be.

Kerry should be smart to make a mockery out of Bush's so called war on terror by sinking into Bush's admission that a war on terror could never be won, he's right, it's a tactic, not a an enemy, notice Scott McClellan's fancy foot work on that one. Kerry should outline a vision beyond the threat of terror, one that outlines who are real enemies are, existing and emerging, including Bush's "axis of evil", notice he has mentioned these folks in a long time, and set a vision on controlling the proliferation on weapons while neutralizing beds of terroist activity as best we can, simply talking about how bad of an idea it was to go to Iraq is doing Kerry more harm then good, why he keeps walking into an issue that he's been posed as weak on over and over again is beyond me, Iraq should really be part of a larger framework, I think this charge, countercharge environment has limited the scope of what's discussed. This should be his foriegn policy board, and shore up his domestic issue board, which really should discuss outrageous government spending and the 17% medicare price increase, as well as lost manufacturing jobs. He's doing that somewhat well, but he really should pound Iraq when you had a week like we had this week already, with 13 dead, coming from Sadr's forces.

If Iraq continues to go down the toilet, it stands to reason that Bush should suffer some point loss in his standing. I would like to say the debates will settle it for some people, but with Bush's ability to mock complexity, and the public's continued adversion to thinking things over, were in for another lock box carnival. The real issue is how safe people feel on Nov. 2nd, that's really what will decide this one.

- Walrus

xoxoxoBruce · 09-07-2004, 10:01 PM

Kerry seems to be running a piss poor campaign. Having his positions on his website won't cut it, he's got to project those positions to the public. People that understand the world from sound bites won't go looking for answers.

iamthewalrus109 · 09-08-2004, 08:09 AM

Your right Bruce. His public persona, shall I say, sucks. It's years of being locked in DC that has led to this heavily managed profile, it's Al Gore all over again. (sigh) Now Bush wants to cut a debate out of the 3 lined up, if Kerry doesn't launch into this, he's finished.

Walrus

Kitsune · 09-08-2004, 09:25 AM

People that understand the world from sound bites won't go looking for answers.

Is anyone else embarassed by this aspect of the election? Without a doubt, it goes for both sides, but I wept when I heard what people were cheering during the RNC speeches. Current events and what has taken place over the last four years isn't seen by any of the voters, anymore, because they can't seem to wipe the "patriotism" from their eyes thanks to the twisting and distracting done by politicians. Somewhere, somehow, someone got the public more concerned about a tragic war that took place decades ago which is, by the way, cute to mock by wearing little band-aids with purple hearts drawn on them.

Bush has, in a way, successfully blacked-out the bad points of the last four years and Kerry seems to refuse to use them against him. Thanks to both sides, this election is going to be determined by some really petty shit in comparison to what the real issues are.

Chewbaccus · 09-08-2004, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Having his positions on his website won't cut it, he's got to project those positions to the public.

A point I've lamented in many a poli sci class thus far. But as shit as the campaign looks now, I have faith. The general feeling at the start of the primaries was that the man was toast even before going into the Iowa Caucuses, but a reorganization (along with some key missteps from Dean and Gephardt) put him back on his feet.

My feeling is, we're going to see some shit go down at the debates. Between Kerry's prosecutorial background and Bush's well-known failings in the public speaking arena, the debates would (on paper) be Kerry's best chance to shine. If he comes into the debates as a DA - clearly laying out his plans and his agenda step by step, building his case before the American Jury as it were - and Bush stumbles, I believe you'll see a lot of the "We don't buy our Christmas presents until the 24th" undecided voters swing towards Kerry.

wolf · 09-08-2004, 11:26 PM

Kerry has to lose as a set up for Hillary's run for 2008. (and yes, I originally typed Hitlary out of habit and had to go back and correct it.)

bluesdave · 09-09-2004, 01:09 AM

Wolf, I suspect that there is more truth to your comment than you realise. As an outsider I find it puzzling that Kerry is so backward in his campaign. People say that he shackled himself when he supported the Iraq war, and then reaffirmed that support later, but surely he could be pushing the domestic issues with more vigour. He seems like he really does not want the job at all. Is this possible?

I'm sure that every Tom, Dick and Harry has been pointing out to him that he needs to lift his game, but he seems to ignore the advice. Maybe he is pinning his hopes on the debates.

Happy Monkey · 09-09-2004, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesdave

Maybe he is pinning his hopes on the debates.

And Bush is considering pulling out of one of the debates, for a total of two.

09-07-2004, 01:09 PM	#1
iamthewalrus109 High Propagandist Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 111	The wind up to Nov. 2nd Cellar dwellers, Now with both the conventionmercials over, we now slide and descend into the final weeks of a so called election. Speaking as one of many disaffected Repulican voters, I feel John Kerry's last round of reorg. stemming from GW's 13 point perecentage point bounce to be the flailings of a befuddled Washington insider. With the addition of Joe Lockhart, and bedside calls from Bill Clinton, it is another reinvention and retooling. Bush has already capitalized on this in his last speech, citing yet another Kerry "flip-flop". This entire format smacks of an Al Gore move. Instead of self help gurus and psychoanalysts being added to the team, Kerry wants to find foriegn policy leftovers and policital bag men. Bush's invocation of "almighty God" in his speech is somehow accepted as truth, it's not votes it's divine selection. If Kerry was smart he would be able to capitalize on many of the declassifed documents released through Bill Gertz' new book "Treachery", some of which outline Bush's reluctance to deal with real threats to this country, as well as the new arms race we will find ourselves in. But that would distract us from the real issues, like hairdressers and and attendance reports, no what a shame that would be. Kerry should be smart to make a mockery out of Bush's so called war on terror by sinking into Bush's admission that a war on terror could never be won, he's right, it's a tactic, not a an enemy, notice Scott McClellan's fancy foot work on that one. Kerry should outline a vision beyond the threat of terror, one that outlines who are real enemies are, existing and emerging, including Bush's "axis of evil", notice he has mentioned these folks in a long time, and set a vision on controlling the proliferation on weapons while neutralizing beds of terroist activity as best we can, simply talking about how bad of an idea it was to go to Iraq is doing Kerry more harm then good, why he keeps walking into an issue that he's been posed as weak on over and over again is beyond me, Iraq should really be part of a larger framework, I think this charge, countercharge environment has limited the scope of what's discussed. This should be his foriegn policy board, and shore up his domestic issue board, which really should discuss outrageous government spending and the 17% medicare price increase, as well as lost manufacturing jobs. He's doing that somewhat well, but he really should pound Iraq when you had a week like we had this week already, with 13 dead, coming from Sadr's forces. If Iraq continues to go down the toilet, it stands to reason that Bush should suffer some point loss in his standing. I would like to say the debates will settle it for some people, but with Bush's ability to mock complexity, and the public's continued adversion to thinking things over, were in for another lock box carnival. The real issue is how safe people feel on Nov. 2nd, that's really what will decide this one. - Walrus Last edited by iamthewalrus109; 09-07-2004 at 01:15 PM.

09-07-2004, 10:01 PM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Kerry seems to be running a piss poor campaign. Having his positions on his website won't cut it, he's got to project those positions to the public. People that understand the world from sound bites won't go looking for answers. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-08-2004, 08:09 AM	#3
iamthewalrus109 High Propagandist Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 111	I would tend to agree Your right Bruce. His public persona, shall I say, sucks. It's years of being locked in DC that has led to this heavily managed profile, it's Al Gore all over again. (sigh) Now Bush wants to cut a debate out of the 3 lined up, if Kerry doesn't launch into this, he's finished. Walrus

09-08-2004, 11:26 PM	#6
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Kerry has to lose as a set up for Hillary's run for 2008. (and yes, I originally typed Hitlary out of habit and had to go back and correct it.) __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

09-09-2004, 01:09 AM	#7
bluesdave Getting older every day Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 308	Wolf, I suspect that there is more truth to your comment than you realise. As an outsider I find it puzzling that Kerry is so backward in his campaign. People say that he shackled himself when he supported the Iraq war, and then reaffirmed that support later, but surely he could be pushing the domestic issues with more vigour. He seems like he really does not want the job at all. Is this possible? I'm sure that every Tom, Dick and Harry has been pointing out to him that he needs to lift his game, but he seems to ignore the advice. Maybe he is pinning his hopes on the debates. __________________ History is a great teacher; it is a shame that people never learn from it.

09-08-2004, 09:25 AM	#4
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	People that understand the world from sound bites won't go looking for answers. Is anyone else embarassed by this aspect of the election? Without a doubt, it goes for both sides, but I wept when I heard what people were cheering during the RNC speeches. Current events and what has taken place over the last four years isn't seen by any of the voters, anymore, because they can't seem to wipe the "patriotism" from their eyes thanks to the twisting and distracting done by politicians. Somewhere, somehow, someone got the public more concerned about a tragic war that took place decades ago which is, by the way, cute to mock by wearing little band-aids with purple hearts drawn on them. Bush has, in a way, successfully blacked-out the bad points of the last four years and Kerry seems to refuse to use them against him. Thanks to both sides, this election is going to be determined by some really petty shit in comparison to what the real issues are.

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